I've been looking at reviews of various OSR products and found this description of the tenets of genre in Five Torches Deep RPG.   Any potential issues or pitfalls with their take on the subject?  From their description of being 5e based, it's obviously not an actual old school project reborn but rather attempting to graft the feel of OSR onto 5e.   I haven't played it (obviously) so I can't tell if they succeeded but the reviews seem positive overall.

Quote from: RNGm on March 21, 2024, 10:44:33 AM
I've been looking at reviews of various OSR products and found this description of the tenets of genre in Five Torches Deep RPG.   Any potential issues or pitfalls with their take on the subject?  From their description of being 5e based, it's obviously not an actual old school project reborn but rather attempting to graft the feel of OSR onto 5e.   I haven't played it (obviously) so I can't tell if they succeeded but the reviews seem positive overall.

5e isn't a horrible system, the biggest problem with it is the sheer number of options made available to players which push the power level up substantially. From that snippet, it looks like FTD is making an effort to bring a lot of OSR philosophies into a 5e framework. I'ven't read the system myself, but I've heard nothing but good things, particularly from Questing Beast, so it's probably a good starting point, particularly if you're familiar with 5e already.

Thanks.   I haven't looked at the actual rules but rather just got a screen shot from a review of the particular page in question as it had some of the types of answers I was looking for as to the feel of OSR and how it may relate to crunch.  In my case, I'm making a conscious effort to stay away from d20 based systems so OSR/OSE isn't for me for the most part and neither is this for the same reason.  It's more looking for guidance in crafting my own rules.

Quote from: RNGm on March 21, 2024, 02:04:05 PM
Thanks.   I haven't looked at the actual rules but rather just got a screen shot from a review of the particular page in question as it had some of the types of answers I was looking for as to the feel of OSR and how it may relate to crunch.  In my case, I'm making a conscious effort to stay away from d20 based systems so OSR/OSE isn't for me for the most part and neither is this for the same reason.  It's more looking for guidance in crafting my own rules.

What are you looking to use instead of d20? d100, dice pool, 2d6? there are old school games that use all of those, but they won't be OSR, since that specfically means being like 0e.

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on March 21, 2024, 03:58:29 PM
What are you looking to use instead of d20? d100, dice pool, 2d6? there are old school games that use all of those, but they won't be OSR, since that specfically means being like 0e.

Definitely agree that it won't actually be OSR but that's why I was asking about the style/feel with regards to mechanics moreso than just which OSR/OSE game people like best.   I've always preferred not depending on a single die for a roll but that hasn't stopped me from gaming exclusively in d20 heavy systems for 15+ years since the early 90s including both the longest campaign I've played in (Rifts) and the longest campaign I've run (D&D3.x).  I'd be fine with any of the above for suggestions/inspiration.

Quote from: RNGm on March 21, 2024, 08:29:24 PM
I'd be fine with any of the above for suggestions/inspiration.

Ah, if you're open to suggestions about dice systems, let me pitch my favorite example to date.

EABA is setting agnostic ruleset that is basically an evolution of GURPS. It has a very interesting system where attributes range from 2 at the absolute lowest to 6 or 7 average to 11 maximum. Each point in skill then stacks on attributes, so a good professional can expect to have a total of 12 to 15. When you make a roll, for each full 3 of you total, you get a d6, and any remainder is added to the roll, so with a 15 you would roll 4d6+2. The genius is, you only keep the top 3 dice. This means all rolls, no matter your skill level, are capped at 20, but the higher your attributes and skills, the more you skew your distribution upwards.

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on March 21, 2024, 09:12:08 PM

Quote from: RNGm on March 21, 2024, 08:29:24 PM
I'd be fine with any of the above for suggestions/inspiration.

Ah, if you're open to suggestions about dice systems, let me pitch my favorite example to date.

EABA is setting agnostic ruleset that is basically an evolution of GURPS. It has a very interesting system where attributes range from 2 at the absolute lowest to 6 or 7 average to 11 maximum. Each point in skill then stacks on attributes, so a good professional can expect to have a total of 12 to 15. When you make a roll, for each full 3 of you total, you get a d6, and any remainder is added to the roll, so with a 15 you would roll 4d6+2. The genius is, you only keep the top 3 dice. This means all rolls, no matter your skill level, are capped at 20, but the higher your attributes and skills, the more you skew your distribution upwards.

Just from a quick google search, it looks like it first came out in the 80s so it's definitely old school (assuming the mechanics haven't drastically changed in the editions since) but is it "OSR" feel/style in terms of the mechanics matching the tone?  Also, would 15 get you 5d6 instead (5x3=5)?   Not to be pedantic but just making sure I understand the core mechanic.

Quote from: RNGm on March 21, 2024, 11:38:46 PM
Just from a quick google search, it looks like it first came out in the 80s so it's definitely old school (assuming the mechanics haven't drastically changed in the editions since) but is it "OSR" feel/style in terms of the mechanics matching the tone?

It's definitely not OSR feeling, like I said it grew out of GURPS, so it's a lot more character customization focused, although it sidesteps the GURPS problem of having a million books by instead overloading the GM with the tools to write those books themselves. I just like the distribution skewing dice rolling mechanic.

Quote from: RNGm on March 21, 2024, 11:38:46 PM
Also, would 15 get you 5d6 instead (5x3=5)?   Not to be pedantic but just making sure I understand the core mechanic.

Ah yes, I forgot to explain, you can always sacrifice a die to increase the bonus to +2, which is usually worth it. so if you have a 15, which would normally be 5d6, or even if you have 16 which would normally be 5d6+1, you can drop to 4d6+2, which mathematically is typically better. It's the only part of the mechanic that I'm not a fan of, because it makes gaining points suboptimal at times, since there's functionally no difference between having a 14 and 15, the difference between 15 and 16 is dubious, and your increase is really only indisputably better when you get all the way to 17. It's similar to post 3e attribute scores, where only even attribute points matters.

Quote from: RNGm on March 21, 2024, 10:44:33 AM
I've been looking at reviews of various OSR products and found this description of the tenets of genre in Five Torches Deep RPG.   Any potential issues or pitfalls with their take on the subject?  From their description of being 5e based, it's obviously not an actual old school project reborn but rather attempting to graft the feel of OSR onto 5e.   I haven't played it (obviously) so I can't tell if they succeeded but the reviews seem positive overall.

The only part of that I'd take exception to is the "Magic is Haphazard" bit. That my be true of Dungeon Crawl Classics and a handful of other games, but most of the popular OSR games use the old school D&D magic system without alteration, and D&D magic has always been basically reliable. You could argue the old school spells are actually more reliable, since they're often harder to save against.

Obviously more on the humorous side, I found a webpage with a script that can give me all the answers I need to "What is the OSR?" Keanu and Lawrence style. 

https://latenightzen.blogspot.com/2020/09/the-osr-is.html

My custom generated response was:

QuoteThe OSR is made up of mouldering grey-beards, playing an original ruleset that everyone agrees 'just feels' OSR (by which they mean their characters get killed a lot), with a couple who brought their teenagers because they can't be trusted at home alone and are 'led' by purists who don't play any game available in PDF or POD but actually led by a rogue CIA cell locked in proxy combat with a rogue KGB cell since 1990 with the goal of destroying storygames forever.

Seems legit.