Working on a new campaign setting I have settled on using Swords and Wizardry for it, it's easy to use and bare bones enough that I can modify to my hearts content without fearing of screwing anything up.

I want a simple skill system for the game and so far have thought of two possible approaches.

If I use whitebox, which I am considering because it is even lighter than core, I had thought about using a simple d20 based skill roll in the vein of 3rd edition with players adding their BHB to a roll as general proficiency bonus. I had thought about coming up with various setting appropriate backgrounds that have packages of skills that add a flat bonus to any related roll.

It's simple and there isn't much to keep up with and it is similar to the core mechanic of combat. If I go that way with Whitebox, I had planned on doing away with the cleric and replacing it with the thief. If that's how I work skills then it would be easy just to use the clerics tables for the thief and give him a flat starting bonus to the classic thief type skills which will scale nicely anyway as he adds his BHB which grow with level.

The second option I had considered for skills is to stick with the core version of the rules and use the existing thief skills as the model for skills in general which would just make them a percentile roll. That works to but I just don't care much for a mechanic that seems to clash with the rest of the rule set in general.

As to magic, I had planned on borrowing Akrasia's spell cost system because I have used it before and found it worked quite well with the whole hit point/constitution point thing which I have been doing for a long time anyway.

Since I'm sidelining the Cleric for this world I had planned on porting some of his spell list over to M-U's.

Ritual magic is something I want to be fairly important to this setting so for an actual ritual system I have been thinking about something like this, a player learns the ritual, gathers the needed materials and performs, he rolls a d20 against a target number adding his BHB if he is a M-U'. The ritual succeeds regardless of the roll, however if the target number isn't met then there are unforeseen negative consequences.

For the actual effect of rituals I have them envisioned as having four possible types, Summoning, Banishing, Binding and Cursing. I prefer to keep things lose so I figure a successful rituals is resolved by GM discretion.

Anyway, this is a rough outline of the house rules I have planned for the current setting I am working on. I'm looking for general feedback, if anyone sees any potential mechanical pitfalls or imbalances I'm missing please feel free to point them out. If you see something I'm taking a crack at that someone else has already done better then feel free to point that out as well.

I'm currently think along these lines for skills in a S&W variant I'm about to start work on.

Premises:

1) I hate skills as they are normally handled in D&D-type games as they tend to lock characters who don't have the skill out of using it even though most skills in a "medieval-era" world should be things anyone would have at least some chance of success even with no training.  Any skill system I would use would give even the unskilled a reasonable chance of success on all but the few skills that really can't even be attempted (with a chance of success) by the untrained.

2) I dislike skills because too many players think all they should have to do is say "I use my X skill" instead of actually describing what they are doing -- especially when it comes to interacting with others. Any rules for skills I would use must do their best to prevent this misuse (IMHO) of skills.

3) Pre-Greyhawk (that is, before thieves) 0e already has a limited skill system. For example, characters had a 1 in 6 chance of finding secret doors but certain races had a better (2 in 6) chance.

4) Most people prefer high rolls to be successful and such rolls make it easier to work with modifiers.

Here's the draft system:

Roll a six-sided die for skill success with the following rolls needed for success:

6+.......Untrained (no special racial/other affinity)
5+.......Untrained (with special racial/other affinity)
4+.......Skilled-Apprentice Level
3+.......Skilled-Journeyman Level
2+.......Skilled-Master Level

When a character can choose a skill, he can either select a new skill at Apprentice Level or raise a skill he currently has by one level (from Apprentice to Journeyman or from Journeyman to Master).

All skills (except those designated by the GM) may be attempted untrained.

The GM may give circumstantial modifiers to the roll (usually from -3 to +3)  where needed.

The player must describe what his character is doing in order to attempt the skill with any chance of success, this is especially true of "interaction with others" skills. Players who just say something like "I use my fast-talk skill to convince the guard to let me go" should fail automatically. Conversely, if what the player describes sounds like it should work, the GM should just say it works without requiring a skill roll. Rolling should not replace roleplaying, especially when it comes to interaction with others.

I like that, it's simple and based on preexisting mechanics. Seems like it keeps things fairly coarse grained rather than getting into ever larger bonuses and target numbers.

I would run it very similar to Randall except I would use roll under the appropriate attribute.

Quote from: Ronin;817748I would run it very similar to Randall except I would use roll under the appropriate attribute.

So something like rolling a set number of d6 based on the difficulty of the task with success coming if the result is under the appropriate attribute?

I roll a d20 under the attribute. Apprentice, journeyman, master each rank gives a bonus to the attribute when rolling a skill. + or - 1-3 depending on difficulty of task.

Quote from: Ronin;817748I would run it very similar to Randall except I would use roll under the appropriate attribute.

The only "issue" I see with that is that it makes attribute scores far more important that the were in base 0e/S&W Whitebox. I used to be a big fan of roll under your attribute tests, but have realized over that last 10-15 years that they really put too high a value on having high attributes.

Quote from: Ronin;817755I roll a d20 under the attribute. Apprentice, journeyman, master each rank gives a bonus to the attribute when rolling a skill. + or - 1-3 depending on difficulty of task.

Functionally though is that much different than rolling a d20 over a set difficulty rating? I mean it does tie it to something a bit more concrete than an arbitrary level of difficulty.

Whenever a skill question pops up in a game of Whitebox, I always have a player roll a d6.  5+ for success.  Use the standard modifers for attributes.  +/- for difficulty and for character skill usually judged on the spot.

Delving Deeper has thieves that always do their thieving skills on a d6 roll of a 3+ which works better then those hairy % rolls and there chances of no success during the early levels.  Obviously an idea that was instantly lifted by me for Whitebox play.

Quote from: LouGoncey;817777Whenever a skill question pops up in a game of Whitebox, I always have a player roll a d6.  5+ for success.  Use the standard modifers for attributes.  +/- for difficulty and for character skill usually judged on the spot.

Delving Deeper has thieves that always do their thieving skills on a d6 roll of a 3+ which works better then those hairy % rolls and there chances of no success during the early levels.  Obviously an idea that was instantly lifted by me for Whitebox play.

That could work. Simple enough which is a draw for me. I might would do something like 3+ or 4+ as success for something a character is skilled in since I was planning on doing backgrounds.

Quote from: Arkansan;817669If I use whitebox, which I am considering because it is even lighter than core, I had thought about using a simple d20 based skill roll in the vein of 3rd edition with players adding their BHB to a roll as general proficiency bonus. I had thought about coming up with various setting appropriate backgrounds that have packages of skills that add a flat bonus to any related roll.

One thing I like best about OD&D, and by extension Whitebox, is that there are not skill lists. What I have found for many players is that skill lists tend to be "things I can't do" lists and therefore they don't think to try them. I run my WB games with stat checks instead, basically rolling a d20 and trying to be under the stat. A simple alternative could be to roll "d20+stat modifier" to beat a target number.

I didn't put skills into the game because they weren't there in the 1970's, but if I wanted to use skills I'd be tempted to swipe the list from 5E. It's pretty short and comprehensive.

Just my two cents.

Quote from: finarvyn;818306One thing I like best about OD&D, and by extension Whitebox, is that there are not skill lists. What I have found for many players is that skill lists tend to be "things I can't do" lists and therefore they don't think to try them. I run my WB games with stat checks instead, basically rolling a d20 and trying to be under the stat. A simple alternative could be to roll "d20+stat modifier" to beat a target number.

I didn't put skills into the game because they weren't there in the 1970's, but if I wanted to use skills I'd be tempted to swipe the list from 5E. It's pretty short and comprehensive.

Just my two cents.

Thankfully it's been a long time since I have run into a group that sees skills an exclusive list of what  they can and can't do. For my current group they are well ingrained in the "try anything" mindset.

For me skills only really come in when there is a good chance of failure regardless of how you cut it. Otherwise if they sell the idea well it just happens so long as it makes sense.

I think I may just go with d20 plus Stat bonus to beat a target number, skills being a simple flat bonus that doesn't increase they are simply skilled in that area and that's that.

I had already planned swiping 5e skill list with some minor tinkering,  I really think it covers things well. I have even thought of doing simple backgrounds and allowing a flat bonus on things that would make sense for your background, that way no fiddling about with a skill list.