I'm looking at the possibility of using Lulu to obtain an ISBN (and, therefore, a listing on Amazon.com, and all that this entails). It's a hundred bucks.
They have it set up two ways: "Published by you," and "Published by Lulu." (link (http://www.lulu.com/en/help/distribution_faq))
Has anyone used either of these? What did you learn? Any recommendations? Is it a relatively painless process, or a three-goddammit job?
Any and all information would be appreciated!
-- Rafael
I might be wrong but I think you can ISBNs a lot cheaper eslewhere. I have not used either of the Lulu options yet.
Quote from: RChandlerI'm looking at the possibility of using Lulu to obtain an ISBN (and, therefore, a listing on Amazon.com, and all that this entails). It's a hundred bucks.
They have it set up two ways: "Published by you," and "Published by Lulu." (link (http://www.lulu.com/en/help/distribution_faq))
Has anyone used either of these? What did you learn? Any recommendations? Is it a relatively painless process, or a three-goddammit job?
Any and all information would be appreciated!
-- Rafael
Hi Rafael!
I used it for StarCluster 2. It certainly earned back what it cost over the years since. The big problem lies in the pricing. I had to raise SC2's price in order to get a decent profit for distribution by Amazon, which IMO killed more sales than it gained. I haven't released any more books under this scheme.
-clash
Quote from: McrowI might be wrong but I think you can ISBNs a lot cheaper eslewhere. I have not used either of the Lulu options yet.
No, you're right. You can definitely get cheaper ISBNs elsewhere. However, I'm also interested in the additional services offered by Lulu, including the Amazon.com and Barnesandnoble.com distribution.
Quote from: flyingmiceHi Rafael!
I used it for StarCluster 2. It certainly earned back what it cost over the years since. The big problem lies in the pricing. I had to raise SC2's price in order to get a decent profit for distribution by Amazon, which IMO killed more sales than it gained. I haven't released any more books under this scheme.
-clash
Hey, Clash!
Hmm. That's good to know. Thanks for the input!
-- Rafael
Quote from: RChandlerNo, you're right. You can definitely get cheaper ISBNs elsewhere. However, I'm also interested in the additional services offered by Lulu, including the Amazon.com and Barnesandnoble.com distribution.
-- Rafael
Ah... Ok. I know a lot of small press publishers don't use the Amazon and B&N distribution because it doesn't seem to increase sales that much. I think the problem is that all RPGs other than WoTC & WWend up getting stacked back on the 10th page so nobody will find the book unless they specifically search for it. If that's true, which means most of your sales will be through promotional links on your website and direct links you are better off selling just through LuLu's site.
OTOH, some buyers see the game as being less "legit" if it's only listed on Lulu. It's a pretty low percentage, but there is that perception.
I also know some small press fiction publishers who do quite well selling through Lulu's distribution system but it's because they really market and promote their products hard. They are typically pushing their products than most RPG publishers do theirs.
While I don't really have anything to contribute to this discussion myself, I just wanted to pop in and say thanks for all the useful information. I've definitely been considering using Lulu as a publisher, albeit not for an RPG, but still this is very helpful info.
Quote from: flyingmiceI used it for StarCluster 2. It certainly earned back what it cost over the years since. The big problem lies in the pricing. I had to raise SC2's price in order to get a decent profit for distribution by Amazon, which IMO killed more sales than it gained. I haven't released any more books under this scheme.
What was the issue there? The cut Amazon takes or is that they demand to be able to price lower than your normal retail price so you have to up your price outside to get a 'normal' return at the Amazon price?
Quote from: blakkieWhat was the issue there? The cut Amazon takes or is that they demand to be able to price lower than your normal retail price so you have to up your price outside to get a 'normal' return at the Amazon price?
In order to get half the profit I used to through Lulu, I had to raise the price through Amazon (and B&N) by that much - i.e. I raised the price by half my old profit in order to get half my old profit, which means if I didn't raise my price I got nothing. That wasn't so bad, because I sold more than twice as many, but then they passed a law that Lulu had to charge the same price - I didn't raise the Lulu price - so when I raised my Lulu price to the Amazon price, the game stopped selling from Lulu. dead. The only sales I get for it are through Amazon - I mean besides pdf.
-clash
Isn't Amazon offering their own POD service now through Createspace? I thought that one of the draws was a free ISBN and Amazon listing, but I could be wrong.
Pete
Quote from: pspahnIsn't Amazon offering their own POD service now through Createspace? I thought that one of the draws was a free ISBN and Amazon listing, but I could be wrong.
I hadn't heard of this! I just looked it up: http://www.createspace.com/
Fixed Charge is $3.15 / unit vs. Lulu's 4.53
Printing Cost -- same as Lulu's at $4.00
Commission -- 30% vs. Lulu's 20%
On a $20 book that's an extra $2, but you save $1 on the printing... so $1 more. The ISBN ($100 with Lulu?) is free though.
Here's the bit on selling at a lower price (http://www.createspace.com/Products/BooksPrices.jsp):
Quote from: CreateSpaceIf we decide to sell your book at a lower price than your list price, you will still earn your royalty based on the list price you set in your member account. For example, in the illustration above, if we sold your book for $20.00, you would still earn $14.85. Discounts you set yourself in your member account are considered reductions to your list price for the purpose of calculating your royalty.
They don't seem to take a % beyond the Fixed Charge and Printing Cost if you bulk order and have them mailed to a distributor or retailer.
Clash -- how does that look to you? I was thinking of going with Lulu... but this looks pretty good.
Hrms. Sadly no hardbacks. Which seems to be the biggest prohibition (honestly, I could make more for soft cover--a lot more, I actually took a hit into my return for H&S in order to get it in hardcover as a durable, long lasting book.)
*shrugs* I'm strange. I wanted a single book RPG, that was simple, durable, and useful.
Quote from: StuartI hadn't heard of this! I just looked it up: http://www.createspace.com/
Fixed Charge is $3.15 / unit vs. Lulu's 4.53
Printing Cost -- same as Lulu's at $4.00
Commission -- 30% vs. Lulu's 20%
On a $20 book that's an extra $2, but you save $1 on the printing... so $1 more. The ISBN ($100 with Lulu?) is free though.
Here's the bit on selling at a lower price (http://www.createspace.com/Products/BooksPrices.jsp):
They don't seem to take a % beyond the Fixed Charge and Printing Cost if you bulk order and have them mailed to a distributor or retailer.
Clash -- how does that look to you? I was thinking of going with Lulu... but this looks pretty good.
I haven't heard of this before either! Sounds like a much better deal. Is there a reason you can't do both?
EDIT: Wait a minute! Look at this:
"4.2 Pricing; Legal Title
We or our affiliate will be the seller of record for each physical product of your Title, and for each purchase (for sale or rental) of a digital copy of your Title on Unbox (in either case, each, a "Unit") to a customer (each, a "Customer") we or our affiliate sells through any CreateSpace E-Store, Amazon Property or other sales channel. We will have sole discretion in setting the selling price to Customers for all Units made available for sale on the Amazon Properties. You will provide a List Price for each Title, which will be at or below (a) the price at which you list or offer that title via any other sales channel; and (b)
the price at which you sell such title in physical form to customers through any distribution method. For the purpose of this Agreement, "List Price" means the list price that you submit to us per individual Title. Please note that you may update the List Price for your Titles at any time in accordance with the Submission Requirements, but it may take as long as 30 days for the list price on the Amazon Properties to be updated."
(Italics mine)
That seems to mean I can't sell below list directly to stores! Not good!
-clash
Quote from: flyingmiceI haven't heard of this before either! Sounds like a much better deal. Is there a reason you can't do both?
-clash
I don't know. I've been meaning to look into it further but haven't had the chance, so if anyone has the skinny, please post it here. What I like most about this service is that it's listed on Amazon and people already feel comfortable buying from Amazon. I can't seem to get much traffic at lulu.
Pete
Quote from: flyingmiceThat seems to mean I can't sell below list directly to stores! Not good!
The text says "customers". Wouldn't that refer to end customers, instead of what price is being paid by those in the distribution chain? So maybe you could have a discount on what you sell it for to the store but you'd have to make some sort of assurance that the store wouldn't sell it for less than list price?
Quote from: blakkieThe text says "customers". Wouldn't that refer to end customers, instead of what price is being paid by those in the distribution chain? So maybe you could have a discount on what you sell it for to the store but you'd have to make some sort of assurance that the store wouldn't sell it for less than list price?
I have no control over what stores charge, and Amazon reserves the right to do this themselves anyway. I DO control what Lulu sells them for, for what that's worth. That's not a problem.
-clash
This is great -- thanks to everyone for the input!
I found this link regarding CreateSpace. Figured it's worth noting:
http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=8298709&postcount=4
If'n you got banned from TBP for posting furry yaoi, then a) it serves you right, and 2), here's what it says:
Quote from: Akyna at RPG.netIf your only concern is getting listed on Amazon, and you have all of the tools to create print ready materials yourself, then Createspace is the better choice. Keep in mind that the ISBNs are not "true" ISBNs. They are not listed in Books in Print. As it was explained to me by a sales rep for Createspace, the company simply bought huge bulk ISBN numbers and recycles them. So if someone deactivates a product, that ISBN will be reassigned to a different project. However, since ISBNs aren't a big issue for RPGs anyway, it's only a minor concern. Also, the books are ONLY available on Amazon.com, not the other sites.
They are working on adding new sizes, but it will be some time before there are 8 1/2 x 11 size available.
The quality is not quite as good as Lulu's, however. Createspace uses Booksurge to handle it's printing. B&W art on white pages sometimes looks washed out or photocopied. The result looks much better on the creme paper (which they only added after getting several complaints, BTW). Also, the covers tend to be slightly darker. Most casual customers won't notice the difference, but some will. The darker covers can impact the look of certain colors, particularly pastels. So you need to be careful.
There were some early problems with inconsistent cutting, but those seem to have been resolved. At one point, the Createspace books were being cut too small. Again, the casual customer probably wouldn't have noticed, but when compared to LSI or Lulu copies it was obvious.
If you want greater distribution, however, Lulu is the better choice. Lulu's Publish By You program is only $50 if you are in the U.S., and that includes an ISBN in your name (which means it's portable and you can use it with multiple printers) and listing in Books in Print and on all the online retailers. If you aren't techno-savvy, Lulu also has tools to convert your files into PDFs and help you design your covers to the right size. Lulu also has more size options.
-- Rafael