Ian, I stole your title but not your adventure.  In hindsight, it might worked better if I had for reasons I might start a new thread about...

But Day 1 (Saturday) is up at D20 Haven - here.

Addendum: In the original write up, I neglected to mention my daughter's first character sketch.

Cute is an understatement...

Awesome, mah brutha.

Thanks, Doc.

BTW, Day 2 is up at D20 Haven.

very cool.  Thanks for sharing and keep us posted!

Man, that's a heartening read, and very good to hear.  That's the sort of things kids won't forget.  Cheers.

I cannot see any cool in what you wrote. Better stop procrastinating the actual game. Better be an awesome DM, who´s prepared and who´s not postponing appointments with kids.

Prep the module and fast forward to adventure, instead of stalling the game & posting on the net.

Sorry, but that sounds way too much like Wil Wheaton´s attempts at DMing than actually something good being done for the kids or the hobby.

Quote from: SettembriniI cannot see any cool in what you wrote. Better stop procrastinating the actual game. Better be an awesome DM, who´s prepared and who´s not postponing appointments with kids.

Prep the module and fast forward to adventure, instead of stalling the game & posting on the net.

Sorry, but that sounds way too much like Wil Wheaton´s attempts at DMing than actually something good being done for the kids or the hobby.

You're talking about a father with young kids of his own and others.  IMPOSSIBLE.  If the guy has more than an hour a day to himself I'd be impressed and to plan that around the other kids and their parents...  I'm impressed you ran 3.5 James.  I couldn't imagine explaining AoOs to kids.  Best wishes and good luck with the game.  Love the sketch by the way.

So you are telling me he HAS to stall the game?

No sir, I don´t believe that. He who can write lengthy entries ABOUT a game could as well prep
better.

Sorry for being a spoilsport, but the wave of "awesome" for a nigh-trainwreck makes me angry.

Quote from: SettembriniSo you are telling me he HAS to stall the game?

No sir, I don´t believe that. He who can write lengthy entries ABOUT a game could as well prep
better.

Sorry for being a spoilsport, but the wave of "awesome" for a nigh-trainwreck makes me angry.

Thanks Sett.  I've defended you any number of times. But you, sir, if I may say so as politely as possible, you are fucked in the head.

I wrote the first during a break at work - like posting this right now - do you think I should be playing with them while I'm at work and they are at school? I wrote one at night, long after the neighbor kids went home and after my kids went to bed.  Should I have been forcing the kids to stay, making their parents question the playing of the game, keeping my kids up way past their bed time on a school night? Should I do all that for your purity in gaming crusade?*

I have to deal with my work, homework for the kids, their general care (when I'm home and not doing the aforementioned work), taking care of a house, both cleaning and repairs (which have increased dramatically in the last few months now that it's 12 years old). Should I let all those basic responsibilities slide for your purity in gaming crusade?

Baseball started - so Sunday afternoon (while the kids were at a cousin's birthday party - should they have told the family to go fuck themselves they have D&D?) I was at a required coaching clinic then last night at a required parents night - should I ignore all that for your purity in gaming?

Can you explain to me how this is "nigh a trainwreck" when I've got them still talking about it, still excited about it, still anxious to play? It's simple.  I speak to them intelligently.  I explain to them the boundaries.  I talk about how I'd love to be playing too, but we have to take care of the real world so that when play time comes, we can relax and enjoy ourselves.

Do I like having to play in 1.5 to 2.5 hour chunks? Is it ideal? Hardly. But I have a thousand other things competing for my time, so I take what I can get. What do you think the answer will be if I ask them - "Well, we can play tonight for a couple of hours, or we can wait until two weeks from Saturday when we can all set aside 4-6 hours - what do you want to do?" In fact, at these ages, 3 hours might be about the limit of attention.

Give me your number, Sett.  I'll have my kids call and you can explain to them how horribly we're playing, what a bad DM I am, how they should be more demanding/discriminating in their choice of DM. Or you can talk to my wife (in German!) about how I should forsake my other responsibilities to provide the proper D&D experience as dictated by you. We'll see how that goes over...

And you wonder where the attitude of give-me-my-god-given-right-to-fun-on-my-terms-right-now comes from? Fucking hypocrite.

Thanks to the rest of you.  I'm open to reasonable criticisms. If you see me making avoidable mistakes or have advice on how to make the limited time I have work better, I'm all ears.

*EDIT: In fact look at the posting dates.  It was days later I even had the chance to devote time to writing the summaries. I didn't stop play so that I could write a summary.  Hell - read them, both times I stopped because the parents of the neighbor kids called them to come home.  Idiot.

Quote from: SettembriniSo you are telling me he HAS to stall the game?

No sir, I don´t believe that. He who can write lengthy entries ABOUT a game could as well prep
better.

Sorry for being a spoilsport, but the wave of "awesome" for a nigh-trainwreck makes me angry.

As for prep - I hadn't planned on running anything.  That is, until Mr. Gygax passed away. So this was all off the cuff. They've been begging to play for some time, and I've tried to put them off so I could prepare.  However, life (and death) have a funny way of ignoring the best laid plans of mice and men...or hadn't you heard.

If your argument is that I played this without prepping enough - guilty. If your argument is that actual play was impacted by the lack of prep - show me. If your argument is that I put off time that could have been spent playing because I was trying to prep - well, then I'm in a bit a conundrum, ain't I.  Damned if I prep, damned if I don't.

Getting them to sit at the table and start experiencing it was important but had to be balanced with a thousand other factors.  If, in your perfect work of gaming you have figured out a way for a guy who hasn't run a game in years to off-the-cuff perform perfectly with everything else in competition for time, more power to you. This mortal will simply muddle through...

Okay, I know I was being an asshole.  It´s understandable you are angry.

How I would have done it:

- Take the Player Character Starter kits -> everyone is equipped (In the PHB)

- Download one of the short modules from WotC. I propose "A Dark and stormy Knight"

-  start playing right ahead.

Apart from that I see serious problems with how you promised stuff to postpone it later. I know that´s harsh, as it´s very personal, but you wrote it for everyone to read. You din´t need the Battlemat, but you flip-flopped around a whole week, only to get to buy it and letting the small ones wait, and thereby lessening the tight time budget you have. It was a procrastinating technique to stall the game because you were insecure (diagnose from far-away, I know).

You can read the module online. If you can post to forums at work, you can prep D&D at work. Plus, the short modules only are 8 pages. They are also suited for getting through them in 4h. That´d be done in two sessions with 2h play increments.

Take kids seriously. If you tell them to wait for HOURS, I don´t think there´s any awesome in it.

I UNDERSTAND that you don´t have much time. AND THAT`S the reason why you must be on your toes, to deliver as much game as is possible AT THE TABLE. Don´t squander your, your wives or the kids time.

Again, I´m fully aware you might think I´m an asshole. But there´s too much back-slapping going on here for something that could have been done way more efficient and fulfilling for all aprticipants EVEN under the time constraints you are surely operating under.

If everyone says you are awesome, and only I´m criticizing you, no need to worry, no?

In my strange way, I´m trying to help.

Another hint:

- Don´t do the original Caves of Chaos with them. They´ll get eaten alive according to 3.5 rules --> lack of morale rules in 3.5

- Exchange the part of the original Caves were they enter with one of the small mini dungeons I linked to, Dark and Stormy Knight should do.

Thusly the survivors can level, which they should find is awesome, and after that you can let them loose on the real caves. 3.5 second level characters can take tha original Caves, especially if they already have a first mini-module under their belt.

More help:

- Download the digital version of Keep on the Borderlands, to have it at work

- You have a Battlemat now? Do you have erasable pencils?

- If not, print out the square grid on paper. You most likely can do this in amatter of minutes at home or work. If you want, I can provode you with a pdf.


- look here for a 3rd edition version of the Caves of Chaos: http://www.jumpspace.net/DnD/Modules.html

Quote from: SettembriniOkay, I know I was being an asshole.  It´s understandable you are angry.

How I would have done it:

- Take the Player Character Starter kits -> everyone is equipped (In the PHB)

- Download one of the short modules from WotC. I propose "A Dark and stormy Knight"

-  start playing right ahead.

Apart from that I see serious problems with how you promised stuff to postpone it later. I know that´s harsh, as it´s very personal, but you wrote it for everyone to read. You din´t need the Battlemat, but you flip-flopped around a whole week, only to get to buy it and letting the small ones wait, and thereby lessening the tight time budget you have. It was a procrastinating technique to stall the game because you were insecure (diagnose from far-away, I know).

You can read the module online. If you can post to forums at work, you can prep D&D at work. Plus, the short modules only are 8 pages. They are also suited for getting through them in 4h. That´d be done in two sessions with 2h play increments.

Take kids seriously. If you tell them to wait for HOURS, I don´t think there´s any awesome in it.

I UNDERSTAND that you don´t have much time. AND THAT`S the reason why you must be on your toes, to deliver as much game as is possible AT THE TABLE. Don´t squander your, your wives or the kids time.

Again, I´m fully aware you might think I´m an asshole. But there´s too much back-slapping going on here for something that could have been done way more efficient and fulfilling for all aprticipants EVEN under the time constraints you are surely operating under.

If everyone says you are awesome, and only I´m criticizing you, no need to worry, no?

In my strange way, I´m trying to help.

Wow.  Constructive criticism. Not just short little burst of nigh incomprehensible text that only you can decipher and that everyone else is expected to dissect to get at you're true meaning. This I can work with. I have quibbles with some of it (insecure? a week on the battlemat? it was less than 24 hours), but I can at least understand your critique and can respond. You should try this approach more often.  Maybe with some prep work, you wouldn't be a participant/generator of so many flame wars.

In order:
The characters had been rolled and, I thought, completed weeks prior. As I said, one of the main mistakes I made was forgetting that the early diversion with equipment could have been solved in character in the Keep. But I wanted them to use the characters they had rolled up, named, and to which they had started for form attachments.

I chose B2 for sentimental reasons.  If you'll note, both of my choices were Gygax modules - for a reason.  Could I have done the Stormy Night? I suppose. Are these kids psyched to hit the Caves of Chaos? Like nobodies business.

As I said, the battle mat was not a weeks worth of decision, it was Friday night that I first went. Saturday I wrote it off and so it had no bearing on the timing other than I had to figure out a solution - which took about 5 minutes; not the best solution, but a solution. As for promises, the only one I made was that we would play. In fact, originally it was to be Friday night, but a last minute play-date-turned-first-sleepover put the kibosh on that.

As I said, I chose B2 for sentimental reasons.  About the only other option I was even considering was Ian's adventure in the hopes he had stuff compiled.  Alas, he was off-the-cuffing it as well (no slam on Ian, he pointed me to some cool resources).

As I said right there in the write-ups - I was of two minds about the impact of making them wait.  Fortunately, the good side has, so far, prevailed. The waiting has made them excited and anxious. The pump of anticipation has been primed. I don't know what would have happened if it had gone the other way...

Could it have been done more efficiently? I'm sure it could. Could it have been more fulfilling? Maybe. Like I said, so far it has kept their attention. I think when we get into the Caves and that stuff, the entire game will be judged accordingly. In other words, I think their fulfillment is not based solely on these two sessions, but on the entire adventure.  I see it that way and it seems, so far, so do they.

Also, your underlying assumption here is a bit funny.  Your assumption is that they did not have fun or were not fulfilled by the events so far. We were talking about it last night, and they remembered names, events, everything as if we had played a few hours before. They loved the shopping.  They loved talking to Goldleaf (L even remembered that it was his stooped over eating stew by shoveling it in his mouth description that caught his attention). If you're not careful, Sett, you're going to leave the impression that the only part of the game that could be fulfilling is the combat.  And we all know that's not true, right? Right?