As I sit to try and create a set of rules, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm up to the job. After all there are other systems out there that have done the work I'm trying to do.

It's not really the entire issue of rule creation. I like coming up with ideas and given the choice I much prefer a self contained game because I think that games using an external core ruleset feel dilute. If I look at the Judge Dredd game I don't feel like i'm stepping into a unique game world (ie mega city 1) supported by the best rules that could be created because the traveller stuff is always there. YMMV.

However when it comes down to the nitty gritty, the boring stuff that rules have to cover such as weapon balance, tactical rules (movement, combat), things like vehicles and starships etc, I am not sure I'm up to the job.

I could use Savage Worlds and I probably should, if my ego weren't telling me otherwise. But aside from the licensing issues (i'm not paying money and dealing with all that just to put out a simple cheap little project, that's crazy), it doesn't feel like it belongs to anything that's not pulpy. I couldn't really see it fitting, given the style and the nomenclautre it uses, with something like wuxia. The use of playing cards, the smilin' jack, it's all somewhat out of place.  That's the problem.

So i'm not sure what to do.

I think it is like anything else, you have to do it in order to reach the point where you are up to the task. It is like writers say "to write a good novel, first write four then lock them in a trunk" (or something to that effect). If you need start with tose savage worlds mechamics as a base and tweak them. But just get something on paper and playtest it. You can't improve until you see what you do that works and what you do that doesn't work.

Your first attempt is an experiment, not a masterpiece. Each time you work out a system it will get better and better and you will have more of a handle on how to approach the task.

Dive in.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;532543As I sit to try and create a set of rules, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm up to the job. After all there are other systems out there that have done the work I'm trying to do.

It's not really the entire issue of rule creation. I like coming up with ideas and given the choice I much prefer a self contained game because I think that games using an external core ruleset feel dilute. If I look at the Judge Dredd game I don't feel like i'm stepping into a unique game world (ie mega city 1) supported by the best rules that could be created because the traveller stuff is always there. YMMV.

However when it comes down to the nitty gritty, the boring stuff that rules have to cover such as weapon balance, tactical rules (movement, combat), things like vehicles and starships etc, I am not sure I'm up to the job.

I could use Savage Worlds and I probably should, if my ego weren't telling me otherwise. But aside from the licensing issues (i'm not paying money and dealing with all that just to put out a simple cheap little project, that's crazy), it doesn't feel like it belongs to anything that's not pulpy. I couldn't really see it fitting, given the style and the nomenclautre it uses, with something like wuxia. The use of playing cards, the smilin' jack, it's all somewhat out of place.  That's the problem.

So i'm not sure what to do.

The SW license is free, and you are not obligated to use Smiling Jack at all. Pinnacle removed Smiling Jack from the newest rulebook as it is. And we'll have to agree to disagree on the pulpy part (I've found SW fit a wide range of gameplay in my group)...but yeah, the playing cards are hard to ditch.

That said, I empathize. I am not a game designer and have said as such several times...and on those occasions when I have considered doing something along those lines, I quickly went "why don't I just use this instead?"

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;532547I think it is like anything else, you have to do it in order to reach the point where you are up to the task. It is like writers say "to write a good novel, first write four then lock them in a trunk" (or something to that effect).

Many musicians write a lot of songs, many of which they never record or play live.

I remember hearing an old John Lennon and Paul McCartney interview from the mid-1960's, where they mentioned that they didn't use most of the stuff they wrote.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;532551The SW license is free, and you are not obligated to use Smiling Jack at all. Pinnacle removed Smiling Jack from the newest rulebook as it is. And we'll have to agree to disagree on the pulpy part (I've found SW fit a wide range of gameplay in my group)...but yeah, the playing cards are hard to ditch.

That said, I empathize. I am not a game designer and have said as such several times...and on those occasions when I have considered doing something along those lines, I quickly went "why don't I just use this instead?"

I don't mean pulpy in terms of how it perhaps plays, but more in terms of presentation: the choice of words, presentation of concepts etc. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

They must have changed the nature of the license then. Last I looked you had to submit a proposal and pay a bunch of money.

EDIT: you don't have to pay, but you have to submit samples to Peginc. That's all fine and dandy but it's not what I want. This is likley not even going to have art, just text. I figured I could sell it for a £2-3 as a pdf, if at all. If their standards are going to make doing it as an actual product then it will never see the light of day. Either that or I make it free as a web file. It may be ridiculous to want to make a few quid out of it, but what's wrong with that. That's the world we live in unfortunately!

Quote from: ggroy;532554Many musicians write a lot of songs, many of which they never record or play live.

I remember hearing an old John Lennon and Paul McCartney interview from the mid-1960's, where they mentioned that they didn't use most of the stuff they wrote.

I'm talking about the rules here. Specifically the rulesy part of the rules, as I said. The other stuff isn't an issue.

Quote from: ggroy;532554Many musicians write a lot of songs, many of which they never record or play live.

I remember hearing an old John Lennon and Paul McCartney interview from the mid-1960's, where they mentioned that they didn't use most of the stuff they wrote.

I used to be in a band and this was true. You have to work out concepts and techniques sometimes and knowing not everything is intended for final form gives you the freedom to play around. Heck I am not even in a band anymore and i still write tons of guitar pieces that will never see the light of day.

For game design, i have made tons of games we have no intention of releasing (got folders if stuff).

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;532566They must have changed the nature of the license then. Last I looked you had to submit a proposal and pay a bunch of money.

Are you sure about the paying them mone part, i don't ever recall that being part of the license agreement (we looked into making a savage world version of one of our games but never did).

Perhaps working with an existing system, say SW, would be a good platform, and then change things within. I don't know to what extent one can change the system with regards to published SW stuff, but non published stuff won't have that limit.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;532575Perhaps working with an existing system, say SW, would be a good platform, and then change things within. I don't know to what extent one can change the system with regards to published SW stuff, but non published stuff won't have that limit.

If you intend to publish probably best to talk to an IP lawyer if you intend to tweak the existing system.

StarCluster 3E Developer's Edition comes with a commercial/non-commercial license. Download the light edition to check out the rules. There are currently seven resolution mechanics, and you can choose from any or all of them.

-clash

Something I have learned from writing RPGs, is that if writing a particular mechanic is boring for you, you probably aren't doing it right.

There's an easy trap to fall into, of designing things in the way you think they should be, based on what you've seen in other games and thus think needs to be there or neds to be handled in a certain way, and what you actually want and would find fun.

Once I realized that, and started just doing this shit for fun, I found a lot of that hesitation fell away.

this is also why I have abandoned every attempt I have ever made at writing a game using an existing system. I just get bored, because I'm just rehashing someone else's shit, ticking the boxes.  I'd rather do my own thing "inspired" by it, than actually just work within the system.

Writing an RPG is kind of a thankless, underpaid job, so the way I figure it is, it better be fun to make up for it.  If you wouldn't do what you're doing for free, don't bother doing it at all.

Very good points, but it does seem that most ideas, except the very unconventional (which usually means wholly imappropriate and pretentious), are thus rehashing, or reinventing the wheel.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;533557Very good points, but it does seem that most ideas, except the very unconventional (which usually means wholly imappropriate and pretentious), are thus rehashing, or reinventing the wheel.

Sure, but there isn't anything wrong with doing what had come before in a new and interesting way. A key innovation here or a really cool flavor concept there. I mean when i buy agame I don't go in hoping to be surprised by the designer's mechanical brilliance, i just want to see a solid and reliable end product that does what it set out to achieve.

Masterpieces rarely happen when you strive or them. They happen when you work your craft and happen upon inspiration in the process. I believe this applies game design. Just focus on getting the basics down (systems that work and good writing). Then when brilliance hits you will have the skills and experience to make it happen.

Indeed. I'm not claiming to be the future author of a masterpiece (would be nice though). But i need the basics to be spot on.

I've been considering a fixed TN system, but I don't think they handle opposed rolls very well. Having the GM have to roll every time such an action arises is not what I want. I prefer a difficulty number based on stats/skills, but I can't think how to do that without using a dice pool like the WoD (ie roll skilld10 and score 1 success per result => opposing skill). I'd rather stick to a pair of dice if possible.