Quote from: Fheredin on February 17, 2025, 09:56:47 AMI meant related to playing cards, but I can provide ideas on this, anyways. Have you considered an epicycles mechanic where you roll a large positive die and a smaller negative die to determine your zodiac sign?

While the Zodiac and planetary spheres were both believed concepts in the middle ages, they are not exactly the same concept, the planetary spheres were believed to be the realms of heaven that influenced physical reality as we understood it, being born under a planet in wax or wane could influence a birth, but for the most part the main conception of them is that they were sort of seasonal influence on the world.

The Zodiac meanwhile is much more tied to the specific person in question and the stars they were born under, that might be interesting for character creation, but not exactly what I'm looking for.

QuoteMedia such as?

I have encountered media using voodoo, but it's kinda unusual and I have never encountered it being associated with a card shark. I can (sort of) see how that would be connected because the Cunning Monkey is African folklore which eventually became the inspiration for Br'er Rabbit in the Song of the South, who eventually became the inspiration for Bugs Bunny. I am familiar with a tale where the monkey swimming in the ocean tricks a shark into taking him back to land, but I am not familiar with any card shark tales from any sources.

Well there was a rather famous example of a Left-handed Bokor played by Keith David in a Disney movie, Dr. Facilier, in Princess and the Frog. sort of a strong embodiment of that specific trope.

but back up? are you actually pulling my leg or do you not know a card shark is? since you're talking about sharks in the literal... I'll provide a definition from merriam webster.

:a person who makes money by cheating at card games.

QuoteI will concede the point if you cite a specific example of voodoo being associated with a card shark in media. And bear in mind that I am asking the bare minimum of you by asking for only one example. One example could very well be an author's creative decision, so by all rights I should be asking for 7 or 8 examples from 2-4 different authors to establish that this is a trope of the religion and not a one-off.

But one example will have to do.

Already did, I like how your framing this as beneficence,  when it's just placing the burden of proof on me to a question which is a distraction of the greater point you're trying to dodge... which is how does any these connotation games we're playing tie into the greater point of your argument?

I did an off the cuff assessment of connotations which could/couldn't fit a card mechanic which you didn't agree with,  and that somehow means I have a few screws loose as a designer? you keep dodging this but you can't actually string together a direct causation.

it becomes all the more amusing when you do the same thing with the zodiac. you seem to assume that they are the same thing, certainly related, but distinct concepts in astrology and fate. But you don't see me turn around and tell you you're a bad designer for making a mistake in connotation, that would be bad faith argument.

QuoteI'm no troll, but I confess a certain degree of schadenfreude from reading this. I'm not calling out the majority of your bad faith interactions or unfounded accusations because I'm trying to keep the conversation in the zip code of civil, and to be frank I don't see anything in them which is worth responding to. It would just chaff the thread.

However, it looks like you are doing a fantastic job of scaring yourself silly that I might try to troll you that doing nothing becomes the best troll move available. So now you've made me into a Quantum Troll, where if I don't troll you, I'm still trolling you.

What can I say? You've made it impossible to avoid trolling you. RIP report inbox.

schadenfreude? this is some peak projection if I've ever seen it, Let's run down the list of Bad Faith tactics you've done and will keep doing if the pattern I outlined holds.

1. Argumentum ad hominem: asserting my arguments or reasoning in one area is faulty, because it might be another.

2. False Equivalence: tied to 1 pretty heavily, comparing connotation and media literacy to design competency when the two are not directly linked.

3. Evasion Tactics: Dodging arguments or paragraphs altogether because you don't have an answer that favors you.

4. Hypocrisy: Wanting to get semantic and specific about my connotations, while also blundering something as simple as the Zodiac and Planetary spheres.

5. Projection: Having the audacity to engage all aforementioned bad faith behaviors and then call your opponent bad faith...

You're right in one respect, I was wrong about you being a troll, a troll (a good one at least) is witty, has brevity, gets the point across and cuts their loses before they take scrutiny. you on the other hand keep digging a hole for yourself and showing what a fool you are...

Civility... what a lame pretense, I don't recall any cries for civility or politeness when you derailed and got one over on me last time? you exhibit no virtues you demand in others.

Quote from: Socratic-DM on February 17, 2025, 01:21:19 PMWell there was a rather famous example of a Left-handed Bokor played by Keith David in the Disney movie, Dr. Facilier, in Princess and the Frog. sort of a strong embodiment of that specific trope.

A Disney movie villain where the villain uses a deck of tarot cards as a part of casting a spell, which makes him into a card shark. Might I remind you that tarot cards are from the wrong continent and the wrong century (they're actually more recent than Voodou)?

This is a case of Disney enacting some creative license because a more realistic depiction of Bokor practices involving hypnotic suggestion, intentionally poisoning others, and in the case of the classic Hatian Zombie, gaslighting the family on their loved one's death and intentionally causing brain damage via drug induced hypoxia. This stuff is just a bit too dark for a children's movie, so Disney did a Disney and sanitized it down to Tarot cards.

Quote from: Fheredin on February 17, 2025, 02:48:32 PM

Quote from: Socratic-DM on February 17, 2025, 01:21:19 PMWell there was a rather famous example of a Left-handed Bokor played by Keith David in the Disney movie, Dr. Facilier, in Princess and the Frog. sort of a strong embodiment of that specific trope.

A Disney movie villain where the villain uses a deck of tarot cards as a part of casting a spell, which makes him into a card shark. Might I remind you that tarot cards are from the wrong continent and the wrong century (they're actually more recent than Voodou)?

This is a case of Disney enacting some creative license because a more realistic depiction of Bokor practices involving hypnotic suggestion, intentionally poisoning others, and in the case of the classic Hatian Zombie, gaslighting the family on their loved one's death and intentionally causing brain damage via drug induced hypoxia. This stuff is just a bit too dark for a children's movie, so Disney did a Disney and sanitized it down to Tarot cards.

I'm not falling for this semantic bait, I never claimed Voodoo and Tarot were connected, I even said the opposite of such, and you're the one trying to pull some Gotcha out of it. I merely pointed to a pop culture example which was your criteria...

Again what are trying to get at? you've found some discrepancy in a fact presented, good job, but you did an identical error earlier regarding Astrology.

You keep using evasion tactics over and over, it does you no service to ignore points, it makes you look bad.

Actually I'm just ignoring you for the time being, I'm trying to get to the crux of this and you want to keep using semantic tricks going down rabbit holes to find something to exploit to get some rug pull like you did last time. I really did think you were trying to make some point, or get to something. but you're just trying to "win" you have no overarching goal.

I'm going to move in the opposite spirit and be done with this giant time waster.

Quote from: Socratic-DM on February 17, 2025, 03:02:13 PM

Quote from: Fheredin on February 17, 2025, 02:48:32 PM

Quote from: Socratic-DM on February 17, 2025, 01:21:19 PMWell there was a rather famous example of a Left-handed Bokor played by Keith David in the Disney movie, Dr. Facilier, in Princess and the Frog. sort of a strong embodiment of that specific trope.

A Disney movie villain where the villain uses a deck of tarot cards as a part of casting a spell, which makes him into a card shark. Might I remind you that tarot cards are from the wrong continent and the wrong century (they're actually more recent than Voodou)?

This is a case of Disney enacting some creative license because a more realistic depiction of Bokor practices involving hypnotic suggestion, intentionally poisoning others, and in the case of the classic Hatian Zombie, gaslighting the family on their loved one's death and intentionally causing brain damage via drug induced hypoxia. This stuff is just a bit too dark for a children's movie, so Disney did a Disney and sanitized it down to Tarot cards.

I'm not falling for this semantic bait, I never claimed Voodoo and Tarot were connected, I even said the opposite of such, and you're the one trying to pull some Gotcha out of it. I merely pointed to a pop culture example which was your criteria...

Again what are trying to get at? you've found some discrepancy in a fact presented, good job, but you did an identical error earlier regarding Astrology.

You keep using evasion tactics over and over, it does you no service to ignore points, it makes you look bad.

Actually I'm just ignoring you for the time being, I'm trying to get to the crux of this and you want to keep using semantic tricks going down rabbit holes to find something to exploit to get some rug pull like you did last time. I really did think you were trying to make some point, or get to something. but you're just trying to "win" you have no overarching goal.

I'm going to move in the opposite spirit and be done with this giant time waster.

Like I said, I'm trying to remain generally civil. It's Parenting 1101 when dealing with young children to ignore bad behavior unless it is actually dangerous and to focus on rewarding positive interactions. That, and none of your accusations are actually backed up by any quotes of mine from previously in the thread, so the parts of your posts which I'm ignoring aren't exactly high value added.

Oh, and let's zoom in on this thing:

QuoteI'm not falling for this semantic bait, I never claimed Voodoo and Tarot were connected, I even said the opposite of such, and you're the one trying to pull some Gotcha out of it. I merely pointed to a pop culture example which was your criteria...

What gotcha? All I did was point out that your example was highly sterilized. I didn't criticize you for it or ask for a different one.