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[FtA!GN!] Could it be TOO big?

Started by RPGPundit, February 27, 2008, 06:12:19 PM

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RPGPundit

Is there a limit to the size that would be appealing for a complete Gamemasters' Notebook for FtA!?

At the moment, FtA!GN! is some 130 pages long; it might end up reaching twice that size by the time I'm done.  It will definitely be larger than the original FtA! book.

I didn't think that could be a problem, but I suppose its possible that people could get scared by having too much varied material, since its going to be a kitchen sink kind of book.

What do people think?

RPGPundit
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HinterWelt

Write what you have and it should be the job of your editor and layout guy to make it fit into the desired number of pages. Editing is key in this aspect. It can be the difference between droning on for 20 pages about the proper use of a feldspar and having a concise geological guide.

Wehn all is done though, the book should be as long as the material warrants. Essentially, if you have 300 pages of advice to give to a GM then you have 300 pages of advice to give to a GM. Just remember you are writing a reference book, not a novel.

Bill
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Gladen

Pundit;
My thoughts are as long as the material is pertinent, not just a bunch of fluff to bulk up the volume, then let it be as large as it needs to be.

Myself, i have no fear of large tomes, especially when the value of the content far exceeds the monetary cost.  However, large volumes of work that aren't sectioned off well, meander too much, or go into a 10 page diatribe that isn't required (such as hinter's Feldspar exmaple), leave me feeling robbed and cheated.

My vote is to make it as big as the aterial allots for.  I would also say that if this is acoherent body, then do not be tempted to break it down into several smaller volumes.
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Sean

Yep, as long as it's all usable stuff I'd rather have one book than split it into smaller ones. I like the idea of a complete guide -it wouldn't scare me - it's when I have to buy endless scourcebooks that I go cool on a setting. In my experience, once you get over 200 pages the index, layout and section order become even more key and crucial.

Mind, I know nothing about publishing/costs etc. If you end up over 300 pages then I'd split it in two and stick a few bits on RPGnow as cheapo/free downloads

Rob Lang

Pundit,
I get this a lot too. A good friend of me asked a very important question:

Why is it long?

Is it long because it's got lots of pictures? Is it long because there is lots of good description? Are there lots of resources? Are you waffling?

If it's yes to most of those (but the last), you're on good ground. If you feel like you need to split it up then you might be onto a money winner (as mentioned above). If you have a lot of stuff to say, break it up progressively into smaller chunks to make it easier to digest and you should be fine.

jrients

Honestly, I would be put off by anything longer than the core rules.
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Sean

how about splitting it into a setting book (with any new rules included and an intro adventure) and a companion book (1001 tables, also stock npcs and combat examples - more on stunts maybe) ?

(Then have a short story competition to write some FtA! fluff based on the Setting)

RPGPundit

Quote from: GladenPundit;
My thoughts are as long as the material is pertinent, not just a bunch of fluff to bulk up the volume, then let it be as large as it needs to be.

Well, to be honest, its going to be having a lot more setting material than I had originally planned.

Not at the cost of the other cool stuff, and not as filler, but because the concept of The Setting just kept expanding and becoming more and more central to the material of the FtA!GN! book.

As for splitting the book, that might end up being a thought, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to do.  There's ONE, precisely one chapter (admittedly, a fairly big one) that's going to be all fluff. But in the rest of the book, the setting material is a part of the mechanics, the random tables, etc. etc.; not in a way that isn't easily adaptible if people want to use the same rules outside of The Setting, but in a way that adds more flavour to a lot of the tables and other gamemaster materials.

Things like details on Guilds, Orders and Clubs; or the system for Crime and Punishment.  Not to mention stuff on the Gods, or the Planes.

RPGPundit
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Sean

Maybe having the one book would be better then - and I'd get the printed tome rather than a hellish long PDF.

QuoteThings like details on Guilds, Orders and Clubs; or the system for Crime and Punishment. Not to mention stuff on the Gods, or the Planes

Teaser !

JongWK

Much as the setting looks interesting, I'd say that the crunch is far more important in this case. Give us tools! You can always turn the Setting into a separate book.
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John Morrow

Quote from: RPGPunditThings like details on Guilds, Orders and Clubs; or the system for Crime and Punishment.  Not to mention stuff on the Gods, or the Planes.

For me, personally, the thing I like least about Medieval fantasy is the organization -- endless tiers of nobility, feudal obligations, guilds, orders, clubs, sects, etc.  I prefer a much more freeform Sword & Sorcery approach with warlords, freelancers, bands, gangs, etc.  Disorganization and chaos are good.  Embrace the individual and the small group!
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RPGPundit

Quote from: John MorrowFor me, personally, the thing I like least about Medieval fantasy is the organization -- endless tiers of nobility, feudal obligations, guilds, orders, clubs, sects, etc.  I prefer a much more freeform Sword & Sorcery approach with warlords, freelancers, bands, gangs, etc.  Disorganization and chaos are good.  Embrace the individual and the small group!

Well, there's a lot of that. The whole middle area of the map, as well as the south and the north, are wild anarchic areas.

In the east you have city-states, and in the west you have a large nation (the Bowlands). These places are more stratified and medieval, while the rest of the map is way more sword&sorcery.

Plus, you might appreciate that he Bowlands is a kind of de-centralized constitutional monarchy where the Kingship is not hereditary, its voted on by the senate of nobles (the Sejm); not precisely a democracy or a meritocracy, but close to both and a state where the rights of individuals are strongly defended against the authority of the state.  The only power the King has that doesn't require approval by a vote of the Sejm is the power to call up the army for the defence of the kingdom.

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


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The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
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Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

John Morrow

Quote from: RPGPunditWell, there's a lot of that. The whole middle area of the map, as well as the south and the north, are wild anarchic areas.

Sounds good.  I was largely just venting, in part because in the past, I've seen a tendency among GMs and players to try to tightly organize things into official groups to make them easier to manage.

Years ago, another GM in my group and I co-GMed a game using the setting developed by another GM in our group that we'd both played in (different games) with the GM who created the setting as a player.  Part of the goal was to let the person play in his own setting so he could see it from the inside and part of the goal was go show him some alternate takes on a few elements.  One of the things I did and convinced the other GM to go along with was to scrub the setting of sweeping and powerful organizations and make the setting more local and chaotic.

Quote from: RPGPunditIn the east you have city-states, and in the west you have a large nation (the Bowlands). These places are more stratified and medieval, while the rest of the map is way more sword&sorcery.

Making things like that regional solves a lot of the problem that I have with it.  From what you've written, I envisioned the Bowlands as a place that the characters come from (which is why my take on the map that I just posted has it running off of the end of the map) and where some civilized adventuring might take place, so if those few places are where it's focused, that should be fine.  I'd suggest avoiding organizations that have power in both the Bowlands and the city states or even both of the city states.  Keep things local if you can.

The Bowlands government sounds interesting.  So no magic dear to make sure the King is right-thinking, huh? ;)
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RPGPundit

Precisely, no magic deer.  A lot of people asked me, when I was criticizing Aldis "what kind of government system could you imagine that would have your values and wouldn't be an historical anachronism?" or "If the real opposite of Aldis isn't Jarzon, then just what is it?". The Bowlands are essentially my answer.

And yes, the Bowlands has some very powerful organizations: the Church of the Unconquered Sun, the Knights of the Temple, the Knights of the Faith, the Szlachta noble clans; but due to their opposition to the Hong barbarians that overran and laid waste to virtually all the territory to the east of them up to the east coast, and because the Unconquered Sun is only one of several religions to the east of the Bowlands (rather than the unquestioned religious authority that it is in the Bowlands), none of the Bowlands organizations are particularly powerful outside of the Bowlands themselves.  There's basically a big cultural disconnect between the Bowlands and the rest of the world: the Bowlands is basically the way the world was 125 years ago before the Hong invaded. The rest of The Setting has changed tremendously, while they've only changed in reaction to those outside changes which they've almost universally opposed (meaning their few changes have actually led them to become more conservative than they once were).

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
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Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.