I've started thinking about mechanics to help players get more in-character when they play. I've known plenty of players who do that and get the roleplaying aspects of the game, but there are others who find it very difficult to do so, or just don't get the appeal, having never tried it. Live and let live of course but for those hesitant or shy about sticking their toe in the waters of roleplaying maybe there are a few learning aids which can be incorporated into the game system.

Has anyone any experience with mechanics that support character traits like 'grim', 'cheery', 'upbeat', or 'taciturn' for example? Some sort of reward system is the easiest answer but rewards for what exactly, and in what way? And how about character development, changes in their character's, er, character in response to events?

Quote from: The Traveller;684809I've started thinking about mechanics to help players get more in-character when they play. I've known plenty of players who do that and get the roleplaying aspects of the game, but there are others who find it very difficult to do so, or just don't get the appeal, having never tried it. Live and let live of course but for those hesitant or shy about sticking their toe in the waters of roleplaying maybe there are a few learning aids which can be incorporated into the game system.

Has anyone any experience with mechanics that support character traits like 'grim', 'cheery', 'upbeat', or 'taciturn' for example? Some sort of reward system is the easiest answer but rewards for what exactly, and in what way? And how about character development, changes in their character's, er, character in response to events?

I've tried various forms of these.  The versions I have the most experience with are Hero System psychological limitations (and similar disads in GURPS and Unisystem), along with Aspects in FATE-based games - which can include personality traits, but are also broader and can include physical descriptions ("Big as an ox") or other descriptors.  

Aspects in principle offer rewards where the GM offers the player XP if the trait causes problems for their character.  Some people like this - but I feel like the other use is stronger for role-playing.  If the player is in a situation where "upbeat" is useful - like when recruiting someone, then they have the opportunity to spend a Fate Point to improve their roll.  If they are threatening a prisoner, then "grim" would be beneficial.  

Traits in Burning Wheel and Mouse Guard are similar.  Traits are used positively, but also have a negative use where the player voluntarily accepts a penalty if the trait is a hindrance (i.e. a grim recruiter or an upbeat interrogator).  

The exact mechanics of what benefit is gained doesn't matter so much as players seeing their personality traits as a resource to be used, and are thus reminded of them.  What I prefer to avoid, though, is where the benefit is greater the more that the player acts like a one-note cut-out.  There should be a limit to the benefit.

BW's character traits are fun, in that if they serve as the basis for sending events in an unexpected an interesting direction, there's a reward.

Torchbearer's beliefs are interesting, because the game advises players not to tell anyone.  It's their job to play them (or not), and at the end of the session, when they are revealed, the group decides if it was demonstrated during play. If so, reward.

BW has a periodic trait vote: every few sessions, you review people's traits.  Participants can nominate players for new ones, suggest that they be removed.  Traits can also be 'promoted', escalating in power from merely cosmetic, mechanic-free traits, into ones with a small (or larger) mechanical benefit.

For example, if you've consistently role-played your character as being the guy for keeping watch, you might get nominated (or nominate yourself) for a trait like 'Watchful'.  Alone, that has no mechanical effect, other than the fact you can earn rewards for playing it as mentioned above.  If you keep pushing it in play, eventually you might get it promoted to 'Alert', which is the same thing, but with a bonus to observation tests.

Yeah there's a few different approaches. There's the stick approach: A trait could limit a player's actions (possibly with a roll to resist), or they could apply a penalty to rolls. Or the carrot approach, where the player gets XP or points for behaving in accordance with their disadvantage or 'Nature'.
A limiting effect with a roll can be harsh, but you can ameliorate that a bit it if the PCs can spend points to re-roll or ignore it.
There's also something to be said for just defining very minor things, reminding the player of things (and forcing them to sit down and think of a couple) e.g. Quirks in GURPS.

I don't have that much experience working with these, but it would be interesting to see the finer details of how they affect player behaviour. Any mechanical system does sort of bring a potential for min/maxing into even the design of the character's personality which sets off some alarm bells somewhere for me. Of course an approach that helps the players act consistently with their personality is good, but you don't want all Grim Recruiters because this is an infinite Fate Point power source, and maybe not all joyful recruiters because its +2 to recruiting (though I don't care so much about a PC built to dominate a small niche).

In weirder cases, I remember an rpg.net story about someone who built their Burning Wheel characters to deliberately have beliefs and things nothing to do with what they as a player wanted so the GM could mess with them less, subverting the system.

The most efficient and effective way to do this is (seriously) give each player a nametag with "I'm ambitious" or "I'm anxious" written on it and have them wear it for only the first session they play a given PC.

At first everyone will just joke about it and it'll be dumb, but as the session progresses it will be repeated until it's drilled into their heads forever.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;684930I don't have that much experience working with these, but it would be interesting to see the finer details of how they affect player behaviour. Any mechanical system does sort of bring a potential for min/maxing into even the design of the character's personality which sets off some alarm bells somewhere for me. Of course an approach that helps the players act consistently with their personality is good, but you don't want all Grim Recruiters because this is an infinite Fate Point power source, and maybe not all joyful recruiters because its +2 to recruiting (though I don't care so much about a PC built to dominate a small niche).

Limiting the rewards goes a long way to limiting this sort of 'combo'.  "Fate mines" are a thing in BW, but by that they mean you can be reliably rewarded for playing your character's personality once per session, which is just fine.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;684930In weirder cases, I remember an rpg.net story about someone who built their Burning Wheel characters to deliberately have beliefs and things nothing to do with what they as a player wanted so the GM could mess with them less, subverting the system.

*groan*  The second-saddest thing about that is that the player presumably had experiences that made this seem like a good idea.

Quote from: Zak S;684940...give each player a nametag with "I'm ambitious" or "I'm anxious" written on it and have them wear it ...

Hah, I bet that would work well.

Quote from: Zak S;684940The most efficient and effective way to do this is (seriously) give each player a nametag with "I'm ambitious" or "I'm anxious" written on it and have them wear it for only the first session they play a given PC.

At first everyone will just joke about it and it'll be dumb, but as the session progresses it will be repeated until it's drilled into their heads forever.

I think tags can be helpful for novice to figure out what role play actually means, but mechanical rewards...meh...that can train a novice that the point of an rpg is to gather bonuses.

Ultimately a player either roleplays or they don't, once they grasp the concept.

This is the way that I get into character: "I open the character sheet". Simple as that.

Quote from: The Traveller;684809Has anyone any experience with mechanics that support character traits like 'grim', 'cheery', 'upbeat', or 'taciturn' for example?

As for mechanics, I sometimes use character traits as guidelines as to how the character acts/reacts, but they tend to be reflections of the character's personality, not drivers of the personality. So, If the character is always angry then I might have Angry 80%, but I wouldn't put a score against a personality trait without it describing the character.

Quote from: The Traveller;684809Some sort of reward system is the easiest answer but rewards for what exactly, and in what way?

We have never used reward systems in our games. People play their PCs according to how they see the character. Generally, people don't act out of character very often and even if they do we chalk it up as one of those things.

Quote from: The Traveller;684809And how about character development, changes in their character's, er, character in response to events?

If events within a campaign change a character's personality then they can be handled simply. If a character starts to act in a certain way which is different to how he'she normally acts then the PC could pick up a personality trait accordingly - this is where the player changes how the character behaves. If an event happens that changes the personality then again the personality traits are changed, for example someone whose family is slaughtered might get a Revenge personality trait. Some magical events also change the way a character behaves, in which case the personality traits are changed by the GM, for example a PC is cursed by a witch to fear the darkness - these are imposed on the PC.

Interesting and informative stuff here. I'm kind of leaning away from giving mechanical weight to traits now, since that's a hard effect inevitably based on subjective opinions about how well a character was played. It seems to boil down to the group and/or the GM making a judgement call at some point and giving rewards on that basis. This can play into favouritism metagaming, whereby the most popular player is favoured more by the group, unconsciously or otherwise.

Then there is the risk of exaggerated two dimensional characters emerging as the players use only the few traits on their character sheets. I suppose it's better than no roleplaying but still not optimal. Also going down that road there are game-disruptive character traits, like argumentative, which risks upsetting the game by just over-roleplaying according to your traits.