Quote from: Ian Absentia;357679I wouldn't worry about that.  The most notable women, like their male counterparts, are the exceptions to the rule, the ones who dare to live by their own standards.

!i!

Well said!

But as for names, try these

• Gertrude Bell
• Mary Kingsley
• Isabella Bird
• Maianne North

And then there were the letter-writing wives of military and diplomatic staff in 'exotic' places ... and the numberless women who accompanied fathers, brothers, sons, husbands, fiances and paramours on their journeys to the European colonies of Australia, South Africa, India and the Far East, Canada and the US - for whom 'adventurer' is just as apt a title as for the titled ladies mentioned!

And then there were the women who disguised themselves as men and fought in the armies and navies of the European powers (some are mentioned at http://www.lothene.org/others/women19.html)

And the armies of 'foreign devils' where women often fought as women.

Hi Sally!

Umm - just to make sure we're on the same page, we were talking about women in British Victorian adventure fiction, not real life. If we spread the net to include real women, we don't get the caricatures which are so nicely extractable into RPG classes. I did list three (non-british) women, two of whom were real, but both Annie Oakley and the Circassian rider were in show business, and their public persona was to a great extent a useful caricature.

-clash

Upon reflection, many of the character types can (or should) incorporate either sex, so having examples of both would cover a lot of ground.

Quote from: flyingmice;358332Umm - just to make sure we're on the same page, we were talking about women in British Victorian adventure fiction, not real life. If we spread the net to include real women, we don't get the caricatures which are so nicely extractable into RPG classes. I did list three (non-british) women, two of whom were real, but both Annie Oakley and the Circassian rider were in show business, and their public persona was to a great extent a useful caricature.

Or after finally watching Deadwood, Jane Canary (Calamity Jane)!

Well the line between Victorian non-fiction and fiction can get pretty thin, not to mention all the purple prose! Anywho, do say the Flashman novels have any examples of women adventurers (there has to be a period name) / who dress up as men ala real life (ditto)? The Sharpe series certainly does, sorry not finished any Flashman, but at least I'm tackling Aubrey/Maturin and Wodehouse via audiobook!

I'm sure that wives and/or sweethearts are present in the lit you're referencing. Hrm, Out of Africa comes to mind, is there a Victorian fiction like it? E. M. Forster? Certainly the young women out to marry up in the world is present, and her pursuit of means and influence certainly could lead to adventures around the world. Then there're characters like Aouda in Around the World in 80 Days and Fu Manchu's daughter, Fah lo Suee, who often turns against her father, and Kâramanèh, his agent who falls in love with the protagonist.

Also servants could be expanded to say, cook or some sort of maid, there must be 20+ types, such as the eversuffering and fussing old biddy landlady or cook who gets dragged along, often to tutt over some other female. I know she's not Victorian, but the landlady in All Creatures Great & Small comes to mind as I've recently watched season 2.

scribblings:
Adventuress (this includes the woman looking to marry for money, and this may be the Victorian meaning of the term)
Biddy (exp. Cook or servant to another female character)
Exotic Girl (must be a better name for the stereotype)
Evil Mastermind's Daughter
Frontierswoman (frontier wife? colonial wife?)
The Matriarch, usually an Aunt, often with Too Many Pets (usually dogs)
Molly Pitcher (Victorian equiv.)
She Who Must Be Obeyed
Soiled Dove
Tutor/Teacher

Sorry to be picky, but shouldn't it really be For Queen and Country?

Glass books of the Dream Eaters and its sequel The Dark Volume are just in this style witha hint of the Chthulu (as magic is more prevalent). The books have 3 'heroes' a criminal Cardinal Chang (not chinese at all but called such owign to scars round his eyes and not a cardinal but he wears red, in fact a killer), Celeste Temple (a young woman of noble birth who has a private income from her dead parents and who was jilted by her finance which led to her becoming involved in events) and Dr Arbelard Svenson (A Swedish medic attached to the service of the prince involved in the plot of the first book).

In any case it throws up a few things.
i) Not all female protagonists need to be Eccentric. I think you could have .. The Feisty Heiress, The Committed Suffragette, The Devout Missionary and The Reckless Heroine to name but a few. All would seem to fall into a wider interpretation of the genre
ii) Criminals. There is scope for a few character based criminals. From the working man forced to a life of crime by vicious circunstance, to the gentleman jewel thief, etc
iii) Like criminals you have the detective. Not like Holmes, he is a genre on his own, but more like Lord Peter Whimsey, Champion or even Miss Marple (although that is a little later).

just an idea

Quote from: Sally Abravanel;358606Sorry to be picky, but shouldn't it really be For Queen and Country?

Probably...

-clash

Quote from: jibbajibba;358609Glass books of the Dream Eaters and its sequel The Dark Volume are just in this style witha hint of the Chthulu (as magic is more prevalent). The books have 3 'heroes' a criminal Cardinal Chang (not chinese at all but called such owign to scars round his eyes and not a cardinal but he wears red, in fact a killer), Celeste Temple (a young woman of noble birth who has a private income from her dead parents and who was jilted by her finance which led to her becoming involved in events) and Dr Arbelard Svenson (A Swedish medic attached to the service of the prince involved in the plot of the first book).

In any case it throws up a few things.
i) Not all female protagonists need to be Eccentric. I think you could have .. The Feisty Heiress, The Committed Suffragette, The Devout Missionary and The Reckless Heroine to name but a few. All would seem to fall into a wider interpretation of the genre
ii) Criminals. There is scope for a few character based criminals. From the working man forced to a life of crime by vicious circunstance, to the gentleman jewel thief, etc
iii) Like criminals you have the detective. Not like Holmes, he is a genre on his own, but more like Lord Peter Whimsey, Champion or even Miss Marple (although that is a little later).

just an idea

Hi Jibbajabba!

An idea to to consider. I haven't read these books, but I like the classes.

-clsh

Quote from: Casey777;358585Upon reflection, many of the character types can (or should) incorporate either sex, so having examples of both would cover a lot of ground.

Or after finally watching Deadwood, Jane Canary (Calamity Jane)!

but again, a foreigner - though American, and thus by definition better than a Frog.

QuoteWell the line between Victorian non-fiction and fiction can get pretty thin, not to mention all the purple prose! Anywho, do say the Flashman novels have any examples of women adventurers (there has to be a period name) / who dress up as men ala real life (ditto)? The Sharpe series certainly does, sorry not finished any Flashman, but at least I'm tackling Aubrey/Maturin and Wodehouse via audiobook!

O'Brian and Wodehouse are two of my favorites.

I can't remember any heroines in Flashman, but it's been decades since I read the series. Sharpe's Spanish wife is a good one, though not exactly Victorian, and anything but British!

QuoteI'm sure that wives and/or sweethearts are present in the lit you're referencing. Hrm, Out of Africa comes to mind, is there a Victorian fiction like it? E. M. Forster? Certainly the young women out to marry up in the world is present, and her pursuit of means and influence certainly could lead to adventures around the world. Then there're characters like Aouda in Around the World in 80 Days and Fu Manchu's daughter, Fah lo Suee, who often turns against her father, and Kâramanèh, his agent who falls in love with the protagonist.

Wives and Sweethearts are never out in the Bush. That's the crux of the problem. If they exist, they're Back Home.

QuoteAlso servants could be expanded to say, cook or some sort of maid, there must be 20+ types, such as the eversuffering and fussing old biddy landlady or cook who gets dragged along, often to tutt over some other female. I know she's not Victorian, but the landlady in All Creatures Great & Small comes to mind as I've recently watched season 2.

Ladies' Companions and Governesses.

Quotescribblings:
Adventuress (this includes the woman looking to marry for money, and this may be the Victorian meaning of the term)
Biddy (exp. Cook or servant to another female character)
Exotic Girl (must be a better name for the stereotype)
Evil Mastermind's Daughter
Frontierswoman (frontier wife? colonial wife?)
The Matriarch, usually an Aunt, often with Too Many Pets (usually dogs)
Molly Pitcher (Victorian equiv.)
She Who Must Be Obeyed
Soiled Dove
Tutor/Teacher

Most of those would be plentiful Back Home, and the rest would be appropriate. I just don't see them appearing in the source fiction.

-clash

Sorry for the absence, my dongle broke! Thus internetless for 2 weeks.

I'll catch up on the gossip then get back to this thread.

Quote from: One Horse Town;360090Sorry for the absence, my dongle broke!

Eew.  That must have...

QuoteThus internetless for 2 weeks.

Oh, I thought you meant...never mind.

!i!

Quote from: Ian Absentia;360116Eew.  That must have...Oh, I thought you meant...never mind.

!i!

What, you think they have internet in the hospital?

-clash

Well, i did get what they called a free, "firmware" upgrade...

So what you're saying is, your wares were indeed soft :confused:

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David R;360154So what you're saying is, your wares were indeed soft :confused:

Regards,
David R

They have a pill for that - wouldn't require two weeks in a hospital.

-clash