Quote from: StuartScooby-Doo!!! Yes, that's totally where it's at.  

Check out Betrayal at House on the Hill.  I think that's pretty close to what I'm talking about.  Except...you know... different. :-/

Stuart, m'lad, I think that just might be what we're looking for here.  The Goonies or Scooby Doo would be an easily understandable game with clear (goals [find your way through the cave to the Priate treasure, or solve the mystery of the haunted amusement park]).

Just thinking out loud, let's see how a "Teen Ghost Detective Game" would play out.



* Little to no prep work
-Here's my idea.  Have 2 tables, both of which you roll a d100 on.  The first table is "Haunted Place".  The second is "Haunting Location".  You could even add a third one, "Haunted By".  So, say I roll on each table, I just plug my results in:

Haunted Castle in Scotland by Zombie Knight

or

Haunted Amusement Park in the Lousiana Bayou by Ghost Pirates.

Hey, we already know what the games about, right?  "Get to the bottom of that mystery, gang!"  All we need do is plug in our little plot generator, maybe watch a few episodes of Scooby-Doo, and we're set!

Now, templates are awesome for this sort of game:  "Preppy Jock", "Ditzy Hawt Chick", "Nerdy Girl with Glasses", "Stoner", "That Goth Girl", "Juvie Delinquent", "Wide-Eyed Redneck"--all by their very names evoke images that would be conducive to RPing, even for a first-timer.  Throw a few skills in there and basic stats (maybe something as simple as mind/body/luck), and we're set.

 * The goal(s) of the game is clear and understood by all players
OK, now I really think this is where a "Teen Ghost Detective" RPG would really work.  Figure out who is behind the haunting of ___________ in the setting of ________________.  Can't get much simpler than that.  Whether its picking up clues or outrunning goons, the goal is still the same.

* Can be played quickly, perhaps in as little as 2 hours
Simple resolution is a must (I'm a fan of 2d6, personally), but yeah, this sort of game theme would be episodic in nature, anyway.

* Don't require extensive rulebooks to be memorized
-2d6 plus Skill plus Stat equals or is greater to Target Number, baby.

* Players can play competitively and not pull their punches
-Hmm--you could institute something along the line of "clue points", or overall "mystery points"--basically, figuring something out or picking up the trail should be worth X points.  Further, you could either cash them in for rerolls (as in Luck Points).  Or, you could simply have the players trying to out-do one another for the honor of pulling off that rubber mask.  This item probably needs to be worked on further.

* Players can focus on roleplaying their characters rather than creating the overall game narrative
-Simple:  a strong GM figure who provides the details.  The templates are painted with a big enough brush folks should have a pretty easy time deciding what their character would do.

* The game is more appealing to the "average person"
-People love mysteries, they love certain old Hanna-Barbera cartoons, amd I think as a mini-genre it might be an easy buy-in. * The game is not seen as the exclusive domain of introverted and/or socially awkward people (aka Lawncrappers)
-Dude, everyone loves Scooby-Doo, or is at least familiar with it.

Just one way it could play out.  There could be plenty of others.  Thoughts?

Quote from: Zachary The FirstJust one way it could play out.  There could be plenty of others.  Thoughts?

Dude, I was just throwing it out there for the last two (two, one?) reasons, but this is just sounding so much better the way you put it...

Trying to make any kind of sense out of this or put any variation into the plotlines might suck...

But who the fuck needs to rationalize Scooby???

REALLY good Scooby Doo build.  I'm in love with the plot randomizer.

Worthwhile to tie in the run-from-the-monster sequences they always put in?  Maybe also a way to run subdual of the baddie.  Got to get them tied up somehow!

Quote from: beejazzDude, I was just throwing it out there for the last two (two, one?) reasons, but this is just sounding so much better the way you put it...

Trying to make any kind of sense out of this or put any variation into the plotlines might suck...

But who the fuck needs to rationalize Scooby???

Well, the nice thing is that a game like that could be painted with very broad strokes indeed.  2 hours, a clue here, a clue there, running from Goons A and B, Swamp Monster X, more clues, a good finale--a couple of trick bookcases, trap doors, and secret stairways, and you've got elements you can change up every game without it becoming a total snooze-fest.  Plus, the random plot generator and a sort of "where to now, gang?" attitude/setting would likely make even longer-term play possible.

I think a lot of fun interaction would be had simply through those templates.  Your Cowardly Stoner is going to make things harder for the group, but his high Luck score makes him a vital part of the team.  Your "Ditzy Hawt Chick" likely won't get along with "That Goth Girl", but might not even realize how much she's pissing her off.  Your "A/V Club Weirdo" might be trying to impress "That Goth Girl" the whole time, but can't stop talking about Final Fantasy X while he searches for the kind of trap door that was featured in Obscure Anime Show #147.

Quote from: fonkaygarryREALLY good Scooby Doo build.  I'm in love with the plot randomizer.

Worthwhile to tie in the run-from-the-monster sequences they always put in?  Maybe also a way to run subdual of the baddie.  Got to get them tied up somehow!

That's a good idea!  Perhaps that's where the Luck stat comes in on different characters.  High-Luck characters can use it a few times a game to add to their rolls to see what happens (sort of like how it is in In Harm's Way).

"Luckily, as my Cowardly Stoner fall down the slide, he crashes into the giant bookshelf, which sends a cascade of books down onto the Headless Watchman".  Nothing where they're having to narrate the entire scene, mind, just a little tweak here and there for cinematic value.

But yeah, we'd definitely need to figure out a way to tie it all in.

My thoughts:

In order to play at all competitively, you have to limit the GM's resources. But you should also consider, for the sake of tone, what "winning" should be for the GM. In other words, I wouldn't allow characters to get seriously hurt or die. And "winning" for the GM should either be, essentially, impossible (and the GM also shouldn't be able to play kingmaker), or the GM should win by foiling the investigation and succeeding in his plot (though still, nobody should be physically harmed), or the GM should get points based on how long it takes the investigators to solve the mystery. Those points could then be banked for future games in which the GM plays an investigator.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadFeng Shui had a nifty take on this two. You start out in a fight, but the players explain why there are there.

Yup, that was precisely the same thing I was thinking. Feng Shui has the perfect setup for both quick character creation and getting right to the action. Its a model I wish way more RPGs would follow.

RPGPundit

Cybergeneration you can actually form the characters as you read through the book. So effectively you can start playing as soon as pick up the book. I've done it a couple of times.

I know a lot of people have the hate on for it, but the way the rulebook was written and character creation was pretty radical, and made the game very easy to start.

QuoteIn order to play at all competitively, you have to limit the GM's resources. But you should also consider, for the sake of tone, what "winning" should be for the GM.

It could be:
* the bad guy gets away
* they catch the bad guy, but the bad deed is already done
* they catch the bad guy, but don't have enough evidence to convict him
* the sheriff, rarely seen and controlled by the GM, is the one to finally catch the bad guy: "You crazy kids should learn to leave this to the professionals.  Maybe we should phone your parents."

Quote from: fonkaygarryI'm totally in agreement with the idea of modular character creation.  In a police procedural, the character sheets could consist of linked pre-printed cards.  Each card would have an archetype name and a listing of skills that archetype has.  To spice things up, there could be a series of flaw cards, focused only on those things the character does poorly.

Example:  I want to make a shooty officer who has his head on straight and puts duty first.  So, I take a "Marksman" card, which has healthy percentages on shooting and firearms skills at the cost of investigational and interpersonal skills.  Next, I take the "Ice Cool" card which, again, trades high percentages in my favored skills for low skills in others.  Finally, to make things interesting, I pick my characters flaw card, "Toe the Line", which puts him at odds with any ideas or actions that go against orthodox police work.

With all my numbers together, I take a few minutes to write up my officer's personal history on a 3x5 card (another damn card!)  In about fifteen minutes I have my character created and ready to roll.

I think this is very clever, would one card modify another?

Quote from: RPGPunditThere's the goal. What can we do to meet that goal, what are the best ways to make a game like that?

Executive Decision.  Greg Stolze.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenExecutive Decision.  Greg Stolze.

Isn't that one of those talky weepy ponder-your-morality "games"?

Alternately, if Executive Decision has the president gear up in mechanized battle armor and wield a laser sword, I would totally play it.

Quote from: Abyssal MawIsn't that one of those talky weepy ponder-your-morality "games"?

Uh...  Not by my standards.

You play a member of the cabinet, as do the other players, during a crisis.  You have an agenda, and so do all the others.  More rhetoric, less pondering.

http://www.gregstolze.com/downloads.html

EDIT: "Because it's moral!" would be an okay posture to use in an attempt to convince others, maybe.  I'd personally prefer "It'll get us votes, folks."

Quote from: Levi KornelsenUh...  Not by my standards.

You play a member of the cabinet, as do the other players, during a crisis.  You have an agenda, and so do all the others.  More rhetoric, less pondering.

http://www.gregstolze.com/downloads.html

EDIT: "Because it's moral!" would be an okay posture to use in an attempt to convince others, maybe.  I'd personally prefer "It'll get us votes, folks."

But my point is (and I'm being serious for once) all you do is talk. Thats it. There's no "and then we go out and do stuff" part. You might as well just play Diplomacy and leave the board in the box.

Quote from: Abyssal MawBut my point is (and I'm being serious for once) all you do is talk. Thats it. There's no "and then we go out and do stuff" part. You might as well just play Diplomacy and leave the board in the box.

Right.

Quote* Players can focus on roleplaying their characters rather than creating the overall game narrative