Hi All,

Before I go too far and potentially waste a decent amount of time, I thought I would get some feedback/constructive criticism about an idea I have for a magic system.

The system allows a spellcaster to alter the range, duration, area of effect, damage and other factors of base spells. Costs are assigned to these variable factors and they are multiplied with the spell's base cost to determine the spell's point cost. (Unfortunately, the variable factors vary based on each spell because for some spells changing one factor makes a big difference game-balance-wise and for other spells changing the same factor doesn't matter much. However, for easy multiplication they are all whole numbers except for .5 and only .5--it doesn't any other halves.) The point cost is then deducted from the caster's daily allotment of spell points. The new spell system includes changes for each spellcasting class so each class is given a number of spell points per day based on the caster's level and ability modifier.

The spells used are the familiar core spells such as Mage Armor, Sleep, Fireball, Wall of Force, etc. Because many players already know these spells, the system is easier to master yet it gives spellcasters added flexibility. For example, if a player wants to cast Mage Armor but he wants the spell to last an entire day he can just modify the duration of the spell and the spell's cost will be a little more than the basic version.

In the example, Mage Armor that lasts just one hour would cost 8 points. (Spells where the variables closely match first level spells are all around 8 points in the system.) To make it a full day would requires a multiplier of 3, so if no other changes are made the cost would be 24 points. (24 points is the equivalent of a little more than a 3rd level spell in the system.)

Obviously, the system adds some complexity to spellcasting. To add major flexibility to spellcasting and preserve game-balance, some complexity is a side effect. Still, if someone has constructive ideas to minimize the complexity, please post. I do have a couple of ideas in mind. (Have spellcasters predetermine the costs of their favorite spell factors for their most commonly used spells and/or use spell reference cards (which many players do already) so players can easily look up the modifier values.)

I know of a few other very freeform spell systems, but for a variety of reasons I'm not interested in those... I'm trying to make a hybrid that keeps people on the same page of what the core of the spell does by re-using the core of the spells we all know but lets the spellcaster change key aspects of the spell. That said, does anyone know of something like the system I've described? Secondly, does this sound interesting and something you would look at and consider adding to your game? Third, what constructive criticism do you have? Thank you!

It sounds like Sorcery in RQ3, magic in Talislanta (esp. 3e and 4e), Fantasy Hero in a way, and maybe even Fantasy Wargaming. In short, not particularly new, but there's nothing wrong with that. Just bear in mind that balance can be difficult and that sometimes it's better to use a linear effect/cost curve, other times an exponential one.

I'll look for more info on the systems you mentioned, except Hero which I have but have not played in 10+ years.  I can easily re-look at that system's approach.

I hope to put it on-line to get feedback and so I can tweak the values as people tell me certain spells get abused in certain ways.  I'm sure the result of that will be different ranges for the possible values... some linear, some exponential.

I'm open to more feedback still.

I have similiar ideas built into my game design because the ability to pump parts (duration, range, power) of a spell on the fly has always been something I enjoyed doing with RuneQuest and Palladium.   I believe the idea originated with Tunnels & Trolls, but I may be wrong.   I do remember pumping spells up back then, but it may have been GM fiat/houserule.

Just keep the math simple.   Personally, I give x2 effect for x2 points, x3 effect for x3 points, etc.

Here's an example of where I'm going with this... I would convert the spells along these lines (note the bolded section contains the information key to the new system):
Bull's Strength
Attributes
School:   Transmutation
Components:   V, S, M/DF
Casting Time:   1 standard action
Saving Throw:   Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance:   Yes
Base Factor:   4
Bonus Factor:   1 + 1 per +2 Bonus
#Targets Factor:   1 + .5 per 2 additional targets
Range:   Touch: 1; Close (25'): 1.5; Medium (100'): 2; Long (400'): 2.5; Far (1000'): 3
Duration (D):   1 Round: .5; 1 Minute: 1; 10 Minutes: 1.5; 1 Hour: 2; 8 Hours: 2.5; 1 Day: 3
Description
The subject(s) becomes stronger. The spell grants the enhancement bonus chosen to Strength, adding the usual benefits to melee attack rolls, melee damage rolls, and other uses of the Strength modifier.
Arcane Material Component: A few hairs, or a pinch of dung, from a bull.
Example Calculations
Base   Bonus   # Targets   Range   Duration   Total
[4]   +4 [3]   1 Target [1]   Touch [1]   1 Minute [1]   12 (2.0)
[4]   +4 [3]   5 Targets [2]   Close [1.5]   1 Minute [1]   36 (4.3)
[4]   +4 [3]   13 Targets [4]   Close [1.5]   10 Minutes [1.5]   108 (6.5)
[4]   +4 [3]   3 Targets [1.5]   Close [1.5]   1 Day [6]   162 (7.5)
[4]   +4 [3]   1 Target [1]   Medium [2]   1 Day [6]   144 (7.2)
[4]   +10 [6]   1 Target [1]   Touch [1]   1 Minute [1]   24 (3.4)
[4]   +10 [6]   5 Targets [2]   Close [1.5]   1 Minute [1]   72 (5.
[4]   +10 [6]   13 Targets [4]   Close [1.5]   10 Minutes [1.5]   216 (8.1)
[4]   +10 [6]   3 Targets [1.5]   Close [1.5]   1 Day [6]   324 (9)

For the examples, the numbers in square brackets are the cost of that choice, the numbers at the end are the total spell point cost followed by the approximate spell level in parentheses.  (That's partly if people want to let a player customize the spells without using spell points and partly a sanity check: For example, should making the spell affect 13 targets for 10 minutes equal a 6th/7th level spell?  Well, since that's essentially "Mass Bull's Strength" which is 6th level, then probably yes.)

Note also that I'm essentially throwing out the caster's level effects on the spells.  (Such as the ranges in this system are 25' or 100' or 400', not 25' + 5'/2 levels. Likewise, fireball spells have a cost factor for the amount of damage.  It isn't based on the caster level.) That's because I feel the caster should pay for the extra range using points, not get the better version of the spell for free.  Also, the spells are balanced against the lowest level caster who can cast the original version.  So this would use a one minute duration for the configurable duration because that's closest.  But when balancing against the "Mass" version, it would use 10 minutes as the configurable duration.

I've always like the ability to tailor spells through a spell point like system and it has been what I've used for the last 15 years or so.  

My critical suggestion would be to drop the multiplication and base cost per effect.  I'd assign a base point value (say for the whole spell with base effects.  Then standardize the cost to increase effects, say 4 points per additional range step, 4 points per additional target, 4 points per additional die of damage etc. To better normalize the value of added points I'd work on the base effect (i.e. "free" on you get with base spell purchase) first before modifying increased cost.

I'd be happy to e-mail you what I've worked out, it's fairly extensive and been refined through years and years of play.

Well, I've picked this project back up now that Hexographer 1.0 is out (there will still be updates for it however.)

Anyway, here's a link to the work in progress:
http://www.inkwellideas.com/roleplaying_tools/flexible_magic_system/

To address the last poster's critique, thank you for your comments.  However I really do think multiplying the factors leads to better balance.  As soon as the caster changes two factors, the costs get thrown out of balance.  Say your Wizard wants to extend the duration and number of targets for a spell like Cat's Grace.  We get a good feel for what a balanced version of Cat's Grace that affects multiple targets through Mass Cat's Grace.  So regardless of how many points one adds to Cat's Grace to make it effectively Mass Cat's Grace, you can't add the same number of points for duration when there is one target vs. several.  But if you multiply factors, you can use the same duration multiplication factor whether there is one target or several.