In my game (or setting, specifically) there exists a 'dark side of the force': a corrupting, seductive and powerful evil force that antagonists can use and, I hope, players can dabble with. This is not to endorse players running amok as evil bastards, but rather to allow them to struggle with a dark side (a bit like the movie Storm Warriors) and to tap into dark powers available to such practice.
The question is how to represent this mechanically. Through disccusions about personality mechanics and other systems it has to be something simple. People won't like being railroaded and the player should really have the choice (I've never thought otherwise) as to whether their character treads the 'dark path' - rather than be coerced by the GM's designs. That said, it does need to have that quality: temptation and corruption are the entry points, ostensibly through anger and grief (you know, as opposed to happiness and laughter!).
I have in mind two traits - Vengeance and Sorrow - but how to make them work? Give players a point of whichever each time their character gets angry/bursts into tears (i bet that never happens in rpg's). That would require manufacturing situations accordingly - railroading. Do I just give them a Dark Side point whenever they comit a sin? How does that work for representing corruption? It should be something where getting that point tempts the player.

Hm. Tricky one. The only way this will work is with player buy in, if they accept that their characters may step onto the dark side and actively choose to accept that as an option. It might sound a little counterintuitive but players can knowingly make decisions for their characters that won't end well, if that's part of the setting.

I would struggle with it myself as it's a bit meta, but then again so is everything going perfectly for the characters due to player wisdom. It cuts right to the quick of immersion.

However if you had to set it up mechanically, I'd make it a GM discretion call and a level based "good guy check"; in my system rolled versus willpower, modified by how nasty they get. GM discretion and player buy in are the two key concepts here - if you cross this line, there's a real chance things can start getting nasty, and your character may choose to cross the line.

One simple way to handle this without explicit mechanism is to make the force powers echo the intent of the force side. Evil Force powers all kill, terrorize, maim, horrify, or otherwise inflict awful and obvious violence. Good Force powers all are defensive, healing, subtle, and personal.

Consequently, players can choose whatever they want and the ramifications are strictly as they affect the narrative rather than some slider or counter to force you to be evil or inhuman -- you already chose evil by choosing to solve your problems with Force Lightning rather than Suggestion. And everyone was watching.

I do it thusly:

at any time a player feels something happens in the game that affects their motivation or determination they can make a roll with percentile dice, claiming the result as "Arete" (willpower points by any other name), which they can use to improve the result of any (intentional) die rolls. The remainder of this roll, however, the GM claims as Wyrd, which is used against the Hero. So its the cruel hand of Fate that gives even as she takes, but its left up to the player to chance that.


I have to name-call Paul Mason for the ideas behind this system.

Yes this is not a mechanism to be forced on players. They would choose to undertake this knowing a) it's really about the redemption aspect and b) you can lose your character to evil and that's a real possibility. But again that won't happen without the player causing it. I think that's absolutely essential. It's not 'uh oh bad choice, tear up your character sheet!'

Make spending your bennies on evil or selfish acts twice as effective as spending them on kind of selfless ones.

Keep score. Award bonuses for acting in the direction they're going towards.

Expect your players to indulge in nasty shit if you encourage them to, though. This isn't going to be to every group's taste.

Quote from: Brad J. Murray;633828One simple way to handle this without explicit mechanism is to make the force powers echo the intent of the force side. Evil Force powers all kill, terrorize, maim, horrify, or otherwise inflict awful and obvious violence. Good Force powers all are defensive, healing, subtle, and personal.

I like that, so a lightning bolt spell blasted into the sky to amuse and entertain would be good, but the same spell used to fry the evil overlord would be a step on the dark path, even though he ate babies or whatever. Positively karmic.

The way I see it,

For a mechanical effect, you really have to have a penalty for not using the evil force.

The darkness must get its 'hooks' into the person, or it is trivial.

Meaning, if a character discovers for example, that using anger to tap the dark force gives him a damage bonus, then if he later rejects the dark force, the character would get the shakes, or something, and have a dexterity or con penalty. For example.

Without a bonus for going dark, and a penalty for then not using it, such things become roleplay only.

The beauty of this is that it is all voluntary.

Character chooses to tap dark force. Warned of course, that it is dangerous.

Charcater then chooses to use it, or not.

Quote from: Ladybird;633859Make spending your bennies on evil or selfish acts twice as effective as spending them on kind of selfless ones.

Or: front-load the benefits for following the evil path ("the dark side is easy") while the good path's mechanical rewards come later.

Quote from: Imp;634369Or: front-load the benefits for following the evil path ("the dark side is easy") while the good path's mechanical rewards come later.

this and ther other stuff.

Have powers tied to light and dark. Light stuff is less effective at low levels.
dark stuff is more effective at low levels but caps out earlier and you can pour more raw power into it.
Light stuff has higher final power level and a threshold on what you can pump into it.
Then track dark power usage.

So in a simple D&D terminaology - Lightning bolt Dark - does 1d8 damage per level maximum 10d8. Lightning bolt light does 1d6 damage per level but maxes out at 20d6

'Good' roleplayers can handle flirting with, or falling to the Dark Side, and Redemption.

'Bad' roleplayers will generally do whatever gives them bonuses.


So I feel that there must be a penalty for abandoning the path of evil.




Good and Bad roleplay is often subjective though.

Quote from: Bill;634423'Good' roleplayers can handle flirting with, or falling to the Dark Side, and Redemption.

'Bad' roleplayers will generally do whatever gives them bonuses.


So I feel that there must be a penalty for abandoning the path of evil.




Good and Bad roleplay is often subjective though.

the penalty would be the loss of power while retaining the social stigma of following evil.

encouraging good rp is good, but bad players will find a way to take the piss whatever.

Quote from: Imp;634369Or: front-load the benefits for following the evil path ("the dark side is easy") while the good path's mechanical rewards come later.

Hmm, that could work. Have two tracks, Light and Dark, let's say 20 spaces long (For the sake of argument). Dark spaces 1 - 10 provide powers, light spaces 11 - 20 provide powers. As you advance down a track, lock out the last few levels of the other one - so if you get Dark 1, say, your Light is now permanently capped at 19, and you can never get Light 20.

Going Dark is the easy path to power, going Light is longer and harder.

It potentially lets you create a tweener, with the first few powers of either track, but that could work.

Quote from: Imp;634369Or: front-load the benefits for following the evil path ("the dark side is easy") while the good path's mechanical rewards come later.

Evil Force can be used as 'fuel dark powers' and as (or in combination with regular) XP. Thus characters can improve quicker by dabbling with dark knowledge.

EF should represent more the result of Dark Knowledge as opposed to a moral force.