Quote from: StuartHmm.  I think part of the problem might be that "theory" is perhaps a bad term for what we're doing (or should be doing) here.  Game design is a better term.  I'm not sure who started calling it "theory"... but outside of RPGs people talk about "CCG Design" or "Board Game Design"... not "theory".

Anyway, how do you instruct someone on "just being a good gm".  However you answer that is your theory approach to game design.

Personally, I believe a game design is superior if it still produces a fun and engaging game for novice players -- including a novice GM who hasn't figured out how to be "good" yet.

See, "game design" would, to me, imply that people are actually designing games.

On the Forge they design games; sadly, not RPGs.

But here, we have yet to see anyone design a game (RPG or not). What we've seen is a few people try to form theories, and a few Forgers try to subvert them.

I'll note that Silverlion has posted a game he's working on, and Levi has talked about the game he's currently working on too. So I guess its not fair to say that no one has done it.

I'd like to see more of it!  That would, at least, be something productive.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditBut here, we have yet to see anyone design a game (RPG or not). What we've seen is a few people try to form theories, and a few Forgers try to subvert them.

I'll note that Silverlion has posted a game he's working on, and Levi has talked about the game he's currently working on too. So I guess its not fair to say that no one has done it.

I'd like to see more of it! That would, at least, be something productive.

I'm going to be finished at work on Friday and will be taking a 4 month leave, during which time I'm going to finish this game and publish it. I probably won't be posting here as often, but when I do I hope to share more concrete info on what I've been working on. :emot-rock:

Quote from: RPGPunditSee, "game design" would, to me, imply that people are actually designing games.

On the Forge they design games; sadly, not RPGs.

But here, we have yet to see anyone design a game (RPG or not). What we've seen is a few people try to form theories, and a few Forgers try to subvert them.

I'll note that Silverlion has posted a game he's working on, and Levi has talked about the game he's currently working on too. So I guess its not fair to say that no one has done it.

I'd like to see more of it!  That would, at least, be something productive.

RPGPundit

I beg to differ. If you scroll back to the start of this forum, I spent a great deal of time working out rules systems and asking for feedback. I got fuck all attention for my efforts and let them drop. It's not for a lack of trying, pundit, but of support.  For all the feedback I got I might as well have been talking out loud in the bathroom.

I'm still working on my project around work, but why the fuck would I bother posting it if it only bores people to tears?  More to the point, typing it up out here gives me some weird mental obligation to 'stick to my guns' on an idea, even if I later think I should reject it... a la my combat system.   All I'll bother doing here is asking for playtesters when I get enough written up to acutally send out.

Quote from: GrimGentBut doesn't that definition lead into the old "a story isn't a story while being told" problem? That is, what else than a narrative would you call an improvised story that hasn't yet come to an end?

There's the catch; a story is about events that have occurred, whether those events are real or imaginary. Though imaginary - that is, fictional - the events in an RPG as it is being played are not part of a story. They are part of a story in the making. What will become story as they are told and re-told again after the adventure is done.

In this way the RPG is unique, it is truly new. Not in the elements that constitute an RPG, but in how those elements come together. What you get with an RPG are imaginary events that are happening. Something that could not happen until the invention of the RPG. And because it is new, it is hard for many people to wrap their minds around it. Because RPGs are about fictional events, it has to fit the story paradigm. It has to be story in some way and if it isn't, why then we'll repurpose story so it fits.

Thus we find RPGs being constrained and limited so they fit a scheme they are not suited for. All in a forlorn attempt to make RPGs into something that does not suit them at all.

Quote from: mythusmageIn this way the RPG is unique, it is truly new. Not in the elements that constitute an RPG, but in how those elements come together. What you get with an RPG are imaginary events that are happening. Something that could not happen until the invention of the RPG. And because it is new, it is hard for many people to wrap their minds around it. Because RPGs are about fictional events, it has to fit the story paradigm. It has to be story in some way and if it isn't, why then we'll repurpose story so it fits.

One of my favourite stories from a game was a James Bond scenario where my spy had to sneak onto an oribiting space-station, blow it up, and escape back to earth. Failure would mean the enemy nation would launch a nuclear first-strike without fear of reprisal -- the space-station was equipped with a powerful anti-ballistic missile laser.  As I was making the final rolls to have my spy escape and return to earth, everyone was standing around the table and watching.  We were all saying how much like James Bond it was, and making tons of Moon Raker references.  When the dice came up lucky and he finally made it, everyone cheered.  That was from a game of Supremacy over 15 years ago -- and I still remember it.

I've found Wargames, Boardgames, and some CCGs (eg. Rage) often create stories that are comparable to those created by RPGs.

Spike: I remember that. Try again now, and the result might be different.

RPGPundit

Quote from: SpikeI'm still working on my project around work, but why the fuck would I bother posting it if it only bores people to tears?  More to the point, typing it up out here gives me some weird mental obligation to 'stick to my guns' on an idea, even if I later think I should reject it... a la my combat system.   All I'll bother doing here is asking for playtesters when I get enough written up to acutally send out.

Well for the most part "It rocks keep at it" gets boring to say.
I like what you've been doing A LOT. And I critiqued the one aspect that bothered me (that kobolds seemed to be too based on D&Disms from my reading--appearently that's not how you felt just "seemed" it to me)

So beyond that KEEP at it. I'd like to see what you are doing with this world, its hard for me to comment more on setting stuff (Where the vast majority of ideas are preference) over mechanical stuff--where I can compare intent to actual function.

Again--I like your studies, they rock. PLEASE I'll post more even if its just "That's good, keep going, maybe try X"  Part of it may also be the voice your using--if you post facts (this is true for the world) its easier to examine than "it might be true, or people believe' as game material.


Anyway I'll save more comments for the actual writings.