What's the Forge and Ron Edwards fella people are bemoaning and why? I don't mind looking like an idiot and asking the questions other newbies are just thinking.

check out The Forge website for more info on both.

I think they're unhappy that a forum ostensibly aimed at developing practical theories instead spends most of its time talking about how terrible the Forge is.

I'm getting a bit tired of it myself.  Currently this forum could easily be renamed "Why the Forge and everything it stands for is an abomination upon the face of the Earth that must be cleansed" except I guess that would take too long.

This isn't a dig at you, but it is a bit sad that a bunch of us who are unpersuaded by current Forge theory spend time talking about it in a place to which it has no relevance.  Those guys just don't like being attacked, and some of the people under attack are their friends.  Whether you think the attacks justified, unjustified, don't know or don't care it's natural some of them will try to rebut what they see as attacks on their friends.

Edit:  Bugger, I totally misunderstood the question.

The Forge is an rpg forum aimed at helping develop certain types of rpg and providing practical advice to designers of that type of rpg.  Ron Edwards is a moderator there and a key proponent of particular gaming theories and styles of gaming.

This link starts off with some Edwards theory history and contains links to all the import Forge articles.

Just stop at the GNS Controversy header as you may not be interested in what follows thereafter.

http://home.comcast.net/~b.gleichman/Theory/Threefold/GNS.htm

Quote from: Mcrowcheck out The Forge website for more info on both.

Okay I was hoping more for a summary, after all I'ld rather be reading this website....

yeah, I hate to see The RPG Site become the anti-forge site.

There have been some good games that cam from the Forge but obviously they don't suit everyones purposes. Whether you like the theroy or not, some of the games are still good.

Of course it don't help that some Forgites come off (intentionally or not) as elitist asses and that their way is the one true way.

But I would hope that this constant trashing of the forge would just end.

Quote from: BalbinusI'm getting a bit tired of it myself.  Currently this forum could easily be renamed "Why the Forge and everything it stands for is an abomination upon the face of the Earth that must be cleansed" except I guess that would take too long.

Frankly I'm of the opinon that either we talk about Forge theory or we don't talk theory at all.

The real stuff is just... easy.

Basically the Forge has promoted certain theories about gaming, most famous of which is GNS which is a way of categorising certain priorities in gaming.  GNS is very popular with some, equally unpopular with others, so it gets most of the attention and other theories there tend not to get much discussed outside the Forge and related blogs.

It also helps people with game designs, but generally with designs for games that are about generating certain kinds of stories, not stuff like DnD or whatever.  Some people love those games and some can get a bit evangelical, some think them massively overrated, in truth they vary a lot though there are common ideas to a degree.

That help is partly in helping design the game and partly in terms of how best to physically produce it and then market it.

Quote from: BagpussOkay I was hoping more for a summary, after all I'ld rather be reading this website....

Ron Edwards has developed his own brand of theories involving games, gamers, why they play and gone so far as to say what is "right" and "wrong" in gaming.

The Forge is the forum/site where many of his devotees take up residence to collect the word from their apostle and spread it, Mormon-missionary-like, to the rest of the gaming forums on the web.

At least, that's the best summation I can give based upon the facts available to me at this time.

As someone who avoids reading the Forge, but nevertheless has been involved in discussion thereof, let me see what I can come up with.

The Forge is an internet forum dedicated to helping people publish their own, creator-controlled roleplaying games. It's been around a while, but achieved more prominence (AFAIK) when Ron Edwards took the helm.

Ron Edwards is, at the most basic, a dedicated RPG Theorist who firmly believes in what he's doing. He's written some exceedingly stupid turns of phrase, primarily centered around the concept that traditional RPGs are damaging to people's sense of story/concept of protagonism/actual physical brains (depending on who you believe), but he's a true believer in his cause one way or the other.

What's up with Forge Games? At the risk of sacrificing accuracy for brevity, they are games in which the old concepts of how an RPG works are, at the least, stepped back from and thought about; concepts like the sanctity of the character, the authority (and even existance) of the GM, the use of game mechanics as 'physics engine/world simulator', linearity of plot, etc. To some people, this represents what they want in a roleplaying game. To some other people, it represents interesting concepts to think about in their traditional gaming. To yet some other people, it represents so much sound and fury, signifying nothing. And to a small sub-set of people - you can probably think of a couple - it represents the gravest threat to their hobby that could be imagined, far exceeding B.A.D.D. and Jack Chick and FATAL-Con rolled into one. I mean, they wear the Viking Hat, goddamn it! Nothing else is right! Save vs. death magic!



Okay, that last bit was just for me, but the rest is my perception.

Quote from: Mcrowyeah, I hate to see The RPG Site become the anti-forge site.

There have been some good games that cam from the Forge but obviously they don't suit everyones purposes. Whether you like the theroy or not, some of the games are still good.

Of course it don't help that some Forgites come off (intentionally or not) as elitist asses and that their way is the one true way.

But I would hope that this constant trashing of the forge would just end.

Maybe we can get Levi to explain some of his thoughts and ideas here.  He usually gives a really good shot at being craft/play-based and putting things in layman's terms.  For a "theory" sub-forum, I think all of us might appreciate little tips and hints on what helps improve our games.  No obtuse terms, just straightforward advice on the hobby.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstMaybe we can get Levi to explain some of his thoughts and ideas here.  He usually gives a really good shot at being craft/play-based and putting things in layman's terms.  For a "theory" sub-forum, I think all of us might appreciate little tips and hints on what helps improve our games.  No obtuse terms, just straightforward advice on the hobby.

Oh great, another Levi Forge-Lite sticky at the top of the board.

One may as well rename this the Levi Forum.

Quote from: BagpussOkay I was hoping more for a summary, after all I'ld rather be reading this website....

Look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_rpg#The_Forge_Community

Quote from: gleichmanFrankly I'm of the opinon that either we talk about Forge theory or we don't talk theory at all.

The real stuff is just... easy.

I'd be happy with the latter actually, I don't think every rpg forum needs a theory site and I don't think this one particularly does.  I'd far rather see a Practical Tips forum.

Quote from: BalbinusI'd be happy with the latter actually, I don't think every rpg forum needs a theory site and I don't think this one particularly does.  I'd far rather see a Practical Tips forum.

I would tend to agree.

A theory forum would need someone to push it. And frankly there is no non-Forge people of note who do theory online anymore.