Quote from: Ghost Whistler;473880Mechanchurian - a robot bearing the lineage (the CHI, Combined Heuristic Interface programming) of Lao2; the great emancipator of robots and the architect of machine enlightenment.

I still think the name is still cringe-worthy, but I love the concept, and I'd play it in a heartbeat.

In fact all of the races sound pretty cool, and now I'm looking forward to your long-promised game. Space opera and wuxia are a match made in Heaven (pun intended) and in fact I did try to whip up something in that vein when I first picked up SBA.

Quote from: The Butcher;474124I still think the name is still cringe-worthy, but I love the concept, and I'd play it in a heartbeat.

In fact all of the races sound pretty cool, and now I'm looking forward to your long-promised game. Space opera and wuxia are a match made in Heaven (pun intended) and in fact I did try to whip up something in that vein when I first picked up SBA.

Which name?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;474189Which name?

I think he is talking about mechanchurian. I personally like the name, though I might suggest removing the middle 'n' to make it roll off the tongue a little easier (i.e. Mechachurian).

It's not a perfect name. But I can't find anything better. Robot as a word doesn't seem right. I don't think dropping the n will placate anyone that doesn't like the word. Names are important.

There is 'shendroid' - which would be a droid + spirit, I suppose. A slightly illfitting pun. Or Xiandroid which sounds better, though I had planned for Xian to be used elsewhere (Xian is one term for a daoist immortal). The same word as Hsien basically.

the CHIzen/CHImatics, the Huojin, the Mechau/Mekau/Tekao, Daobots, Shenturian (ugh) - nope

Essentially there are two types of robot: regular (like the droids you see all the time in the setting/backdrop of star wars) and hero (ie what I call mechanchurian). The latter are the self aware unrestrained freeman type.

Droids and possibly Xiandroids.

This may be a better naming convention because they are related; as it's sf there has to be robots/droids whatever. Robots and mechanchurians is a bit of a divide.

I agree - too much of a divide, and 'Xiandroids' is just too good not to use.

I'm half tempted to start (yet) another thread for this discussion, but for now we'll continue herein.

I'm working on the rules right now with a view to move into playtesting. There I think the final setting details can be cemented.

I'm starting by working out combat. This is the most important, on balance, aspect of the game. I think from here a final resolution system will emerge. It's also the place I feel most comfortable starting and everyone's got to start somewhere.

The first idea is about the resolution of an attack. This involves two concepts:
Force and Chi. Force is effectively the strength of an attack and is modified by successes (i'm going with a success-based system for now) on the roll to hit. Chi is the ultimate power source for Heroes (player characters, with Opponents and Enemies for their similarly-powered antagonists). I can't define exactly how Chi will work yet, that's what will be defined when working on these rules. It won't, for now, be a pool of points to spend on abilities and pwoers. I'm not sure a resource management system is intuititve enough. It's probably mroe like Psy Rating in 40k: an overall stat that governs power use. It is however a measure of the Hero's inner power.

When someone is hit, a 'test of inner power' occurs: the Force of the attack is rolled against the target's Chi with the higher result determining the broad overall outcome. Each party rolls the relevant die pool and scores 1 success per even number (the resolution system I'm currently working with).
if you watch the big fight between Smith and Neo in Matrix Revolutions you see them hit each other, often with slo mo, and huge shockwaves issue forth shattering windows and such. That imagery is what informs this test of inner power. The outcome of the Force roll is intended to be a guide for the impact of the attack: for example a mighty shcokwave of fiery chi issues forth from the enemy (rolls force) toward the hero as he stands in front of his starship. The hero steels his inner power against the wave of fire (rolls Chi). If the hero wins out, he comes out unscathed while the strength of that attack (the result of the Force roll) shatters his starship. Somethign like that (though a bit less extreme otherwise there'd be nothing but collateral damage!).

So:
If Force wins, the target takes that much Turbulence, but gains Wind equal to the result of his roll (for surviving). If that number of successes also exceeds the target's current Wind he is also (if not already) Weakened which leaves him vulnerable to conditions thereof.

If neither party has the upper hand, then both receive Turbulence equal to the amount of successes and also Wind equal to the same amount.

If there are more successes on the Chi Dice, the target takes no damage and may immediately spend Wind equal to the result of the Force Dice roll to make a counterattack.

What's Turbulence and Wind?

Well the former is a sense of fatigue, more caused by expenditure of inner power than simple physical stress, while the latter is sort of a 'second wind'. Both represent the ebb and flow of battle. Those moves in kung fu films where the target is hit and sent flying but where he lands surefooted - they confer said target Wind. This is a resource the Hero can use to buy extra dice (including Chi and Force) and increase values in combat.
When a Hero resolves his action for the round, he may receive a further action, in the next cycle in the same order, if he scores more successes on that action than his current Turbulence.
Turbulence also will have other, deleterious functions. That's the plan.

What's Weakened?

To defeat a foe you must first Weaken him. This is the plan. I don't intend to use hit points if I can help it. Though I doubt that will last. There are three types of Weakness and I only intend for one to be active at any time. If a hero is Weakened he will have one of these states as dictated by the nature of the attack:
If physical he gets Hurt. This is the fast track to defeat (as i call death, i'm not convinced about player character death).
If 'social' he gets Taunted. This usually means the Weakened character is over emotional and is forced to act in certain ways - such as attack the source of the taunt. He has been slighted and must attend to his honour.
If mystical/supernatural (not including Kung fu) he gets Cursed. Curses are exactly that; a demon might attack and leave you weak through his Poison Breath Curse. He might curse you to have 'demon dreams' where you cannot properly rest. All sorts as you'd expect.

So it's a vague start point, but a start point nonetheless.

Quick thoughts - good start !! - I like the wind mechanic and how the chance of collateral damage would encourage tactical choices.

How do weapons fit in - say a swordsman vs one unarmed ?

Chi: would it be based on point-buy, derived from stats/background, random-rolled, every-starts-the-same-but-their-actions-(e,g, adherence to xia virtues) or-further-training-alter-it's-value ?

Maybe wound levels (that maybe temporarily affect physical/social stats) would be more intuitive/visual than hit points - stunned, floored etc.

Quote from: Sean !;475304Quick thoughts - good start !! - I like the wind mechanic and how the chance of collateral damage would encourage tactical choices.

How do weapons fit in - say a swordsman vs one unarmed ?

Chi: would it be based on point-buy, derived from stats/background, random-rolled, every-starts-the-same-but-their-actions-(e,g, adherence to xia virtues) or-further-training-alter-it's-value ?

Maybe wound levels (that maybe temporarily affect physical/social stats) would be more intuitive/visual than hit points - stunned, floored etc.

Thanks.
Weapons are merely stylistic, ultimately, and they (ie guns) confer the ability to fight at range. An unarmed guy fighting a swordsman is a hero built to fight unarmed, a martial artist, that's the players' choice. They'll have access to martial arts while the swordsman is likewise a stylistic choice made by that player. There might be a few side effects, in the way that Jedi can use lightsabres to burn open doors etc or throw them.
Chi I imagine is ultimately another stat. I'm not sure the details however, they will come together as the design progresses.

Weakness is the key to victory. Manipulating the target into checkmate. When a character is weakened they don't lose Turbulence; instead it gets stored in one of the three weakness states, as depends on what caused the weakness. A strong enough social attack from Ace Attourney will Taunt the character badly enough to weaken him and leave him Taunted. Turbulence then gets 'stuck' in that state (literally, it becomes a store) until the state of Weakness is removed/healed. The intention is that the Turbulence then becomes a threshold for defeat. Ace Attorney can then deliver a verbal coup de grace against that threshold (the higher the better for Ace, of course) to trigger a defeat condition, whatever that might be (again it depends on the state itself. Hurt might lead to death or unconsciousness, Taunt might lead to exposing one's secrets or schemes to the point the character cannot continue (Watergate style), Curses might have all sorts of effects.

Not many concrete answers yet.

sorry if I'm asking really obvious questions:

- does the basic value for Force increase with experience ?

So the novice guy (in a straight one-on-one conflict with a veteran) is probably not going to weaken the veteran on his first hit, but if he survives the initial combat rounds, he could build enough Wind to spend on Force and deliver a telling strike or crushing insult. On the other hand the veteran can unleash more Force on his initial attack, so lesser enemies feel the pain immediately, but if he want's to crush an equal, he probably has to take a beating or weather the insults first. Fitting for a genre that deals with vengeance.

I like weapons being stylistic, allows for improvised stuff - attacking with spanners etc.

I don't know.

You would think it would, or at least might.

Force is simply your damage dice: it's the successes on your to-hit roll + the power of the attack or weapon. If you used a martial art to kick the guy, swung at him with a sword, shot him with a laser pistol, or used some kind of Chi Art (the magic stuff, as opposed to Martial Arts, both of which are Chi based) to hit, all will have a value for that power, as well as possible side effects. That pools to form your Force Dice.

It's possible that there could be a cap on the number of successes added to the power based on your level of skill or experience or whatever.

The flaw with the Wind idea is that it penalises quicker combatants, unfortunately.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;475964The flaw with the Wind idea is that it penalises quicker combatants, unfortunately.

I disagree that it is a flaw as it minimizes the quick riskless assassination of Major Opponents, which is a genre-appropriate feature:

- Imagine a Jedi cutting a swathe through a bunch of stormtroopers where his speed/skill overrides their numbers, but once he meets the evil Sith Lord, it's a slower stylized combat - imagine in Empire Strikes Back where Darth Vader is taunting Luke Skywalker to weaken him, just as he tried with Ben Kenobi. The difference between Han Solo drawing his pistol against a mook (Greedo) or a major opponent (Vader).

- I watched Detective Dee And The Mystery Of The Phantom Flame and 14 Blades this week. There's battles vs. Minor opponents and there's battles vs. a single Major Opponent** In 14 Blades the climax is a battle between the hero and a much faster opponent, but until the injuries weaken and the taunts begin, it's pretty equal.

In cinematic terms - If a beginning PC tries to shoot a major opponent in the back from cover, there's a good chance his target will avoid getting outright killed - by sensing it and dodging or deflecting the bullet/blast at the last moment.

When the Jian confronts the Major Opponent who killed his mate, I wouldn't want the entire confrontation over in seconds, even if the combat is only a single strike after the Jian has psyched out his opponent by amping up the opponent's fear of righteous vengeance.

A quicker unsurprised combatant should be able to act first in any given round, but it's whether that's effective that's ultimately key against a major opponent.  Acting before minor opponents should always be effective against those in range - they're really just there as an obstacle to distract the PC from the task at hand. But that's just my opinion.

What i mean is that if you attack first during the round and hit your opponent, you are going to give him Wind points where you yourself will gain none. If I allow those points to be spent to add dice and such, they gain a potentially unfair advantage - just for being attacked and not for attacking first.