That's not far off what I'm thinking. The great 'dark between the stars' is the interstellar void between systems. This will be the Great River which is dangerous when travelled off the beaten track. That track represents the routine flight paths and trade routes; slower and less efficient than the paths known to a few. It's dangerous also because this is where the Hell Worlds lurk. Their influence flows like a poison into the Great River.

Somethign like that.

That said it was never my intention to have something like The Warp, in 40k, where, essentially hyperspace is hell/the underworld. That sets the wrong tone for me.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;473766This will be the Great River which is dangerous when travelled off the beaten track. That track represents the routine flight paths and trade routes; slower and less efficient than the paths known to a few. It's dangerous also because this is where the Hell Worlds lurk. Their influence flows like a poison into the Great River.

The Great River, nice. Giving the player choices of route so they weigh up risk vs. gain is something that's always worked for me. They could even try to barter with demons, consult the records of the Ministry of Sages or request aid from the Hsien for more guidance about their journey.

"Let us find the Once-Illustrious Xang. In his youth, a Captain of the Imperial Navy and favoured at Court. It is said he frequents the backstreets of the Luduan quarter to play Mahjong and drink rice wine at the hour of the Rat."

What I would have liked, but it isn't at all possible, is to have the kind of racial diversity you see in Star Wars. Even in that first moment in Mos Eisley you see a dozen or so aliens, all different, and you know this really is a galaxy far far away. Of course no rpg can encompass so many different species, and even the SWRPG doesn't try. It covers a few, the most well known.
To have continued reiteration and use of certain numbers/patterns all based on chinese though (the wu xing, for instance), does risk, IMO, things becoming a bit trite. So if we now have five systems, while it might be logical for their to be five races (which I had originally proposed), I wonder if that's not getting trite in that way.
Or maybe that makes no sense.
I certainly didn't want to create some kind of anthropomorphic SF setting, like Kung Fu Panda in space. This is why I chose slightly different races: if we'd had the dragon folk, the turtle folk, the snake folk, the tiger folk, and the phoenix folk, it would detract too much. Plus I hate 'furries'.

I quite liked the ideas for the 5 races, perhaps they 'supposedly' embody the 5 virtues:

Kuo - piety
Genbu - benevolence
Luduan - propriety
Jian - justice
Mechanchurian - loyalty

Just as humans range in shape, size, race - so the aliens could also. Couple that with them all doing a variety of occupations and just shipped in from different planets then that noodle bar starts looking cosmopolitan.

It's not so much cosmopolitan as it is about fulfilling what are, at elast IMO, certain expectations. The strength and the curse (from a design perspective) of this project is exactly that. It suggests certain ideas, iconic in many ways (A word I have used to describe them before). Peopel on this thread have responded with what they feel are just that; zero-g kungfu for instance. In an sf version of a kungfu/wuxia rpg it would seem utterly remiss to not have different races, and thus for those races not to be based on chinese creatures of myth. Unfortunately some are more suitable than others; every mythology has entities that are just going to be too bizarre to use. So considering what they represent wasn't really foremost in my mind.

Of course there's another interpretation: in the Shadows of the Apt the concept behind the races isn't that they are anthropomorphised insects (IIRC) it's that they are mortals that have evolved in a world with these giant insects (or giant and more deadly versions thereof) to have somehow evolved to copy aspects of them. The Wasp kinden can shoot 'stings' from their hands (guess what the Fly-kinden can do!). I never finished the first book but the idea is very consistent in that setting. So perhaps borrowing from this style is the way to go.

Interesting. So, The Genbu - could be culture decended from humans that settled a low gravity world of slow methodical beasts. Or your Jian concept: 'the original idea was to have a twin being, a gemini kind of concept, for an avian type' - maybe the humans there twinned with symbiote flying spirits or at least learnt from them. Almost like Humans that that been uplifted/altered. I find that mythic and sci-fi.

I might have missed it, but what system are you using for this? That might impact things as well.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;473788I might have missed it, but what system are you using for this? That might impact things as well.

My own.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;473797My own.

Okay. Is it all done or are you developing it with the game.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;473803Okay. Is it all done or are you developing it with the game.

I'm developing it with the game. I just don't think i could use someone else's rules - for better or worse. That said, I really like the Weapons of the Gods resolution mechanic.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;473777What I would have liked, but it isn't at all possible, is to have the kind of racial diversity you see in Star Wars. Even in that first moment in Mos Eisley you see a dozen or so aliens, all different, and you know this really is a galaxy far far away. Of course no rpg can encompass so many different species, and even the SWRPG doesn't try. It covers a few, the most well known.

I suppose you could use tables to generate the aliens on the fly - there's no need to have a load of info on each - you need to know how they react to the players and who they're loyal to. But then it just may end up too random or too samey (like Star Trek).

Anyway if you need any playtesting doing at any stage, I'd be glad to help out.

I can't see myself doing that, I don't think it would be necessary. Peple that want to make stuff up for games don't really need such thigns anyway.

Here, then, is what I consider the final, if not fully fleshed out, list of character choices (ie races, not classes) a player can pick for his hero:

Jian - a race of beings evolved from an earlier avian species. They can’t fly and retain only a vestigial wing. Jian are uniquely predisposed to seek out a companion - ostensibly another of their kind (for mating purposes). Once found, the pair enter a unique relationship of mutual support, though the Jian benefits on a more fundamental level. The Jian can support its companion in unique ways and benefits from the achievements of that companion. Jian without a companion are regarded with sorrow and pity, especially elder Jian.

Luduan - a big, though not tall, mortal possessed of blue skin and a mane with a fanged mouth. They are able to use Chi to tell truth from lies and were once venerated within the Celestial Republic of the Five Dragons. Ironically now they are not well regarded; the Iron Emperor doesn’t tolerate them and spreads propaganda about their ability. Luduan may possibly be  four legged as I’m reminded of Maxim from the comic Godland and how awesome playing something like that would be (Hellas does something similar for Greek myth).

Kuo - human through and through, the most populous and adaptable of all the beings of the Five Heavens.

Children of the Dragon - the Lotus Junzi of Imperial Iron Qin believe they are the direct descendants to the Tien. They are Kuo in appearance and performance however. Physically the Tien are believed to be draconic and direct descendants of the Celestial Dragons that became the stars of the Five Heavens (whose true number was, during the reign of the Tien, 10,000). Not sure if this is a player choice really.

Genbu - strong, but given to a methodical and meticulous pace. They are big and armoured and have a tendency toward engineering. They do not care for haste and are loyal when their friendship and trust are earned.

Wukong - renegades that followed the Monkey King from the Gong who are predators at the edges of space. The Gong are monstrous outsiders believed a myth by the populated heart of the Five Heavens, but they are real. Wukong are those of their kind that rebelled against them doing their best to earn the trust of the Five Heavens and armed with their own kungfu pioneered by the greatest of their kind, The Monkey King. He alone led a daring mission to the heart of the Gong fleet on behalf of his new allies in the Celestial Republic to rescue the Princess Hsuan Tsang whom the Gong had abducted; heir to the Dragon Throne.

Hsienform - a robot host designed to hold a particular Hsien. Forms are not intended to be used permanently as there is some signal degradation. Most Forms are maintained either by Wu Engineers (serving the Diamond Garden and the Council of Hsien), or by the descendants and family of the Hsien (prior to his passing into the Heavenfield). Hero Hsienforms are those that are compelled, either by misfortune or to seek atonement, to return, via their host bodies, to the mortal realm.

Mechanchurian - a robot bearing the lineage (the CHI, Combined Heuristic Interface programming) of Lao2; the great emancipator of robots and the architect of machine enlightenment.

I'd play any of these. Jian and Hsienforms - I like the inherent drama there. Luduan - four-legged sounds better to me. Children of the Dragon - no, unless the PC was an exiled/runaway noble it doesn't sound appropriate IMHO.

One thing that struck me - you've managed to impart a good deal of useful setting flavour just in the race descriptions. I liked that about the class decriptions in an earlier thread too.  Much better than reading a massive essay, I like piecing it together.

Quote from: Sean !;473926I'd play any of these. Jian and Hsienforms - I like the inherent drama there. Luduan - four-legged sounds better to me. Children of the Dragon - no, unless the PC was an exiled/runaway noble it doesn't sound appropriate IMHO.

One thing that struck me - you've managed to impart a good deal of useful setting flavour just in the race descriptions. I liked that about the class decriptions in an earlier thread too.  Much better than reading a massive essay, I like piecing it together.

I'm not opposed to the idea of a renegade noble player character, but maybe for the first supplement

Finding the right balance between enough and too much information is really the art of game design. No setting or game can hope to encompass everything. Even Tolkien's work wasn't the easiest read. THis is also where art comes into it. It's much better to post a picture of a Luduan hero up than to spend a paragraph describing him. All I have to do is hire Tony Wong to do the drawing.

So do all the races get to play all the classes ?