TheRPGSite

Hi!
  I really am looking to brainstorm this out a bit (I have some criteria, but other than that, its all flexible). Here is where I am starting from:
  You play a character that wants to make a difference. For whatever reason, your character has super-human powers (Probably has to do with cosmic rays). And they have decided to step up and make a difference.
  There has always been heroes like you. People know about it and accept it as true.
  This is a alternate earth, much like our own. But some people have super powers. Most people still live their lives the way they do here, today. Even though someone might swoop in to save them, people still look both ways before crossing the street. Because, your chance of being personally rescued by a super-powered human is the same as the chance you would have a conversation with an American Idol.
  But for every shining star, there is a shadow cast that cannot be denied. Super Villains keep the world in balance and all of them pursue their own twisted agenda.
  So, your character battle evil to save the world, marshaling their powers and allies to overcome the efforts of super-powered villains.

Design goals:
 - Encourages Stepping up to make a difference
 - Encourages public persona (no alter-egos)
 - Encourages public knowledge of super-powered humans
 - Encourage life as usual in a modern earth-like world
 - No conspiracy of shadows
 - No government super soldier programs
 - No aliens
 - No hereditary powers

  So, what do you think?
Dave M

Hi!
  This is a piece I am still working on, trying to set the tone/expectations:
  Imagine, you are a normal person, living your life, just trying to fit in. But, you can't, you really are different...
  You have super powers. You've known it for your whole life, its nothing new. But you just didn't want to stick out in a crowd, until that day when Inferno threatened to melt the city with his heat ray. You knew that your Ice powers would make a difference...
  And that was the day that Steve Forester became a hero.

Steve Forester
Ice powers (Super, Power, Physical)
Total recall (Power, Mental)
Charming (Ability)
Quick (Ability)
Thorough (Ability)
Likes people
Doesn't like attention
Impulsive
Mark if the Soft touch (Mark)
Can never trust again (Weakness, Social)

Inferno
Heat ray (Super,Power, Physical)
Hot body (Power, Social)
Instinct (Ability)
Daring (Ability)
Methodical (Ability)
Manic
Narcissist
Driven
Mark of Greed (Mark)
Super predictable (Weakness, Mental)

How is being a Hero like being a rock star?
  In this setting, there are a lot of similarities:
1) They are lots of them, but you will probably never meet one
2) They both want to be known for their talents
3) They both believe in something
4) No one knows how they make their money
5) Everyone thinks they know you from your press
6) Everyone expects you to do things that they themselves would never do
7) Everyone expects you to do the things you did before
8) Everyone expects you to try new things and keep it original
9) You only make the news when you do something huge or something bad
  What do you think?

I think you might work on givine people tools to build their own "Alternate Earth with superpowers.." since, let's be honest, most people who play supers either want Marvel, DC, or their own thing.

However, some things you can consider. Having a secret identity is common even in our world (nom de plumes, actors, wrestlers) now we may all know who Dwayne Johnson was--but that doesn't know your average person will immediately associate the name with the former wrestler.




It makes sense. One issue I had with Aberrant was its similar approach--the fact is, many of us grew up reading comics, and watching superhero movies (awful or not.) Those tropes--costume and secret identity, are in part ingrained into what we think of, when we think of supers. Remove them at your own risk.

I remember the joke about WW's Aberrant--one writer was a bit annoyed, because it was being used and played /as a superhero/ game, just like they'd ranted about NOT doing. Never mind their superheroic ideas where stuck somewhere in the 70's at latest, version of superheros, not the decades since.

Apparently though--people with superpowers, WILL dress up and fight crime. Mostly because such a game will be played by people from our backgrounds.

SO I'd examine why you want to do the no secret identity think, and remember that actors, actresses, and even rock stars often dress differently when going out in public--making their secret identity the rock star self, and the more mundane one how they dress up to not be recognized.

SL,
  I hear what you are are saying and I will think about this further. But the idea will be to set up a societal norm. I really want to model the super hero experience after rock stars, and just like Cher and Madonna, there will be heroes that will take on a more theatrical name. But in modern music, these are the exceptions rather than the norms (with the obvious exception of rap artists). Basically the point of this setting is to bring it back to real people. I mean if you, personally, could fly, would you wear a cape and tights and call yourself SilverLion Man? If you would, then more power to you. If not, the system supports that mode of play.
  Besides, capes, secret identities, etc has been done to death, I wanted to try something original. The idea here is to present an original setting (instead of Marvel with a twist or whatever) and give it wiggle room so the players can do with it what they will, does that make sense?

Quote from: dindenver;221066Besides, capes, secret identities, etc has been done to death, I wanted to try something original. The idea here is to present an original setting (instead of Marvel with a twist or whatever) and give it wiggle room so the players can do with it what they will, does that make sense?

Yeah, but I'd suggest the other way has been done to death as well--people with powers (not "superheroes") is a stable of a lot of fiction.

 I don't see anything wrong with doing the rock star lifestyle as an equivalent, mind you--I just have seen it done a lot. (For better or worse mind you.)

What will you be adding to gaming "supers"?

How will you encourage this mode of play, and discourage traditional superheroics?  Or will you?

Aberrant tried this, and failed at presenting this idea. Partially, because, the answer to the question:  "What will you do with the powers of a god?" for most people is dress up and fight crime. I've seen Nobilis run this way (in spite of its cold blooded murder required of characters in the setting..) as well.

Godsend Agenda, which is a fairly original setting--actually makes costumes, rock star fame, and the like work together. In its supplement Mythos, it points out that fame/hero worship can channel Ka (the uber powersource of the game) and that allows those who have followers to be able to do more superheroic stuff.

Perhaps that is something to consider: Why does it work that way? Do superpowers only goto the selfish? Does being a fame-monger, shape your powers/make them stronger?


Also, what do you expect these character to do? I mean writing an adventure for superheroes is easy--writing one for rock stars, or actors, not so easy. How will you support creating "adventures", or what will make playing these powered people exciting?

Nah,
  I am not going to harsh on someone's style.

  The idea is, I will set up a decent, believable (as believable as possible with supers, lol) setting and let the players go hog wild.
  The mechanics really only support a certain kind of hero (one with some sort of public face), but other than that if they wanna dress up in a tu-tu and call themselves madam cotton puff, that's their campaign, not mine, lol

  Honestly, I don't know the history of Aberrant.
  I can only imagine it was a setting where all the PCs have super powers but can't use them for fear of getting caught. But that is just an assumption based on what I know about WW (big Exalted fan, btw).

  I dunno, I think this is unique, the idea is that the characters ARE superheros. Just that they are the super heroes you or I would be if we had super powers. Not some kind of ideal that is not sympathetic (or empathetic or whatever) to the players themselves.
  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Batman and Wolverine. BUT, I Can't relate to them as people. Not because they are heroes, but because they choose (as characters) to express their heroism in a fashion that is alien to me.
  Also, I get it. That is a storytelling standard. I am not trying to say they are doing it wrong. OR that fans of it are messed up (especially since I am one of those fans). Its just I can relate to those people that laugh at a dude running around in tights or that has x-ray vision but doesn't check out the ladies (or the men). And the aspects of classic super hero genre (tights, secret identity, etc) are there for a reason, they provide a recognizable symbol and interesting plot points for the characters to deal with. I mean Super man comics/shows/movies would probably be boring if he didn't have to worry about maintaining the Clark Kent persona.
  I am just looking to go another way. Not too radically different (as you pointed out), but not more of the same either (I hope).

  As to what I really add to Supers Gaming, I would like to think I add unlimited creativity in character creation. As to the genre, I wouldn't be so bold as to presume I could add anything, just carve out a little niche that might be underpopulated or underrepresented in Supers gaming.

Hi!
  Here is a little more, hope this helps paint the picture:
Where are all these powers coming from?
  Cosmic rays. Cosmic rays form the normal background radiation that exists everywhere on earth. A huge volume cones from the sun. However, 99 % of the high-energy particles come from the galactic core. No one knows where that other 1 % comes from. But, it is theorized that they are the source of super powers. These exotic high-energy particles could alter the DNA of whoever they strike. It is known that this phenomenon only affects young children (usually less than 3 years old) and that no one has ever been affected in the womb. In very rare cases older children manifest powers, but the oldest recorded age is of someone just attaining their powers for the first time is 12.
  What do you think?

Quote from: Silverlion;221137Aberrant tried this, and failed at presenting this idea. Partially, because, the answer to the question:  "What will you do with the powers of a god?" for most people is dress up and fight crime. I've seen Nobilis run this way (in spite of its cold blooded murder required of characters in the setting..) as well.

Mrh? PCs in Nobilis aren't required to kill anyone except perhaps Excrucians and their minions, especially if that's not what the players want from the game, and the sample campaign in the book explicitly sets up the characters as Inquisitors charged with investigating crimes against reality itself. The whole "secret identity" trope goes well with that, actually, since common mortals aren't supposed to know about Nobles. Still, it's pretty different from Dindenver's "superheroes as public celebrities" notion.

Quote from: dindenver;221163I dunno, I think this is unique, the idea is that the characters ARE superheros. Just that they are the super heroes you or I would be if we had super powers. Not some kind of ideal that is not sympathetic (or empathetic or whatever) to the players themselves.

Out of curiosity, have you ever read Wild Cards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Cards)?

Gent,
  No I haven't even peaked at Wil Cards, is it worth a crack? I am only vaguely aware of the GURPs version. Wasn't it supposed to be about Supers as mercenaries or something?

  Lion has a good point about what some people will do with the system. I guess to juxtapose it against Nobilis (which I know a little about as opposed to Aberrant), there it is easy to remain hidden. There is a whole magical world you can step into and you are veiled from mortals. In essence, the system protects your ID for you. While in my game, NPCs (or PCs for that matter) might be able to use face recognition software to identify a character from a photo. And if the disguise is as simple as putting on/taking off glasses, they won't even need those kinds of high tech gizmoes to figure out Superman is Clark Kent, you know?

  I mean maintaining a secret ID is done today in the real world in modern times. So, I am not trying to make it impossible or say it can't be done at all. BUT, if you save the world and show your face to thousands, if not millions of people watching the news, then someone is going to step up and say, I dated him in high school or that guy lives on my block. And then the cat is out of the bag, right?

  That is the point I am trying to make, I want it to be a little less fantastical and a little more realistic. Not from a gritty, everyone dies perspective, but from a social/psychological perspective. I mean, if you are a public figure, how hard is it to keep a secret? Even before the internet, JFK couldn't keep his affair secret, and between him and Monroe, they had all the power and influence you could possibly muster at the time, right?

Quote from: dindenver;221459No I haven't even peaked at Wil Cards, is it worth a crack? I am only vaguely aware of the GURPs version. Wasn't it supposed to be about Supers as mercenaries or something?

Nope. Basically, in 1946 an alien "DNA bomb" of sorts was unleashed in Earth's atmosphere. Many died. Others were twisted into mockeries and caricatures of what they used to be, and became "Jokers". Some gained powers of every possible variety, and became "Aces". The series then follows the course of the 20th century as it might have been under those circumstances. It's a well-known example of "ordinary people with superpowers", from long before Heroes.

Gent,
  I read the wiki article as well, cool stuff. Is it a decent read (compare to Dresden or Clancy for my tastes in modern genre writing)?

  There are some similarities and some differences.

  For instance, the idea behind my alternate earth is that there have always been super powered humans. Hercules and Paul Bunyan were real for instance. And its a commonly held and trusted belief (none of that "there is no such thing as superheroes" hooey). And that the alternate earth is very similar to what we have now (just with more super heroes).
  Does that sound cool?

Quote from: GrimGent;221439Mrh? PCs in Nobilis aren't required to kill anyone except perhaps Excrucians and their minions, especially if that's not what the players want from the game, and the sample campaign in the book explicitly sets up the characters as Inquisitors charged with investigating crimes against reality itself. The whole "secret identity" trope goes well with that, actually, since common mortals aren't supposed to know about Nobles. Still, it's pretty different from Dindenver's "superheroes as public celebrities" notion.

Actually you have to kill a 100 mortal to build a manse? manor? demense? whatever the thing is called. Chancel?

Yeah, I know its different but its still "you've been given powers to do whatever..."

I guess I differ in the concepts of superheroes. See, to me to be a superhero, the person has to be hero--as modern ideology's present them--people who do good, or try too, first and foremost.

So if you take that out, its not about supers, but people with powers--and there are a HOST of games that do that. ( From Exalted--fantasy plus over the top powers; too things like Witchcraft, or Vampire.)

Now don't get me wrong, if they're still doing the herioc side of things that's fine, and good, but it is a very cautious line I'd suggest him walking--too far one way and you have a Tim Powers novel, or a slightly different painted modern supernaturals game.


As too Wild Cards, they're quite a bit what I'm talking about. Sure there are some that are heroes, flawed, human beings--and still heroes. Then the bulk of them are like the people he talks about--people with powers who use them selfishly. I think the most recent Wild Cards book might need to be looked at its kinda of Wild Cards+ Big Brother/Survivor/American Idol+ What does it mean to be a hero, mixed up in a very interesting package.

It's called Inside Straight.

Don't get me wrong, again let me reiterate, I think its possible to do this in an interesting way. I just want Dave avoiding the pitfalls of past games/writings that tried and failed (for the most part--they're not near as popular as traditional superhero comics, even if they have some success.)

Quote from: dindenver;221550I read the wiki article as well, cool stuff. Is it a decent read (compare to Dresden or Clancy for my tastes in modern genre writing)?

I'd say so, yes. The series can be a little uneven at times because of the sheer number of writers involved, but all in all it's not at all bad even for casual reading. Besides, your setting sounds similar enough that there would inevitably be comparisons.

Quote from: Silverlion;221677Actually you have to kill a 100 mortal to build a manse? manor? demense? whatever the thing is called. Chancel?

"Chancel", yes, but by default its formation has nothing to do with Nobles. It's the Imperator who claims a piece of the world as its realm: if some god decides to declare California its Chancel, then either over the next hundred days a hundred Californians will die in bizarre ways (hunted down by suddenly feral poodles or taking root in a local park or spontaneously bursting into butterflies), or that god must sacrifice something of great value to itself, such as an eye or an only begotten son. It's the magic that kills them rather than any murderer. Typically an Imperator will only choose Nobles to guard that realm afterwards (when all of California has vanished from living memory and the sight of mortals), although it could certainly have just the Familia or the Chancel, or neither.

And as always, it's the players who decide what the cost of the Chancel was, and whether their characters had anything to do with its creation. The oldest known Chancels have been around for seven thousand years, after all, long before any modern PCs were even born.

(Aha, I knew that seemed familiar from somewhere... Here (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=186668), to avoid further derailment, is the original RPGnet thread about all that.)

SL,
  Yes, I agree, its not a game about super heroes if the characters aren't, in fact, heroes first.
  I thought the little narrative snippet made it clear that Steve Forester had made that choice to stand up and make a difference in this world. Was the example not strong enough, or just not complete or?
  I compare them to rock stars, but I don't want them to actually be narcissistic jerks, just that they are that famous and treated that way by the public.

  In fact, that will be one of the steps I am adding to chargen, describing your first heroic act that occurred before the campaign began. I think I am going to have the players design a super villain at the same time they design their character, what do you think?

  Also, the mechanics are resolved by determining how the characters' actions changed the environment around them. In fact, it costs extra to extend that effect to your own character. So, I'd like to think that I am doing my best (as much as I can do as a designer) to push people to think about saving the city instead of making money or something.

  Gent, thanks for taking the Chancel discussion out of this thread. I think this game is definitely different from nobillis. I see what SL is saying though and am fortunately familiar enough with the game/setting to steer clear of it with relative ease.

  I guess that is what this game is about, characters that want to make a difference. I will admit that in this setting there will be the following:
Super heroes
Heroes
Good Samaritans
Ineffective people
Apathetic people
Cynical/Depressed people
Bad guys
Super villains

  All of them with AND without powers.
  Chargen for the PCs will be about making powered individuals that are either heroic or super heroic. Again, there might be a character that has super powers and uses it to get free lap dances, but this game is not about those characters and they will be relegated to NPCs if they appear in the campaign at all...

  Steve Forester, in our example, knew he had ice powers since before he could remember. He knows how to control it and what it can and can't do. He chose not to use it in a heroic manner until he was an adult in a flawed attempt to "fit in." Now he is a super hero who saved the city. And that is when the campaign starts, after that event has change his life/perspective.

  Makes sense?

PS
  Sorry about the long post, I am working this out as I explain it, thanks for your patience and making it this far down the post!

Quote from: dindenver;221786In fact, that will be one of the steps I am adding to chargen, describing your first heroic act that occurred before the campaign began. I think I am going to have the players design a super villain at the same time they design their character, what do you think?

"Heroes defined by what they oppose", then? Would that be a different personal nemesis for each PC, or a single villain who somehow connects the entire group together and whom they all oppose for reasons of their own?

Gent,
  I think it COULD be a nemesis, but doesn't HAVE to be. I think its a way for the players to indicate what kinds of conflicts interest them. Like, if a player makes a Super Villain who is a 1st degree mason and has mind control powers, then that says a lot about what kind of game they want to play in, right?
  Hmm, now I have to come up with rules to let the players pool chargen for the villain to make a super big boss...
  Good thought!

Quote from: dindenver;221821Hmm, now I have to come up with rules to let the players pool chargen for the villain to make a super big boss...
  Good thought!

Good idea. You might simply let them pool points towards a group of conflicts. I mean after all X-men are "conflicts with humanity" at times and less about the supervillains (although supervillains are part of the their lives its not always their chief motivator.)

 I could see an all woman team championing womens rights/opposing glass ceilings, or a fervent team working for to better the environment (without going too far like some.)

The big bads don't have to be people--they could be organizations, groups, ideals. Although these also work as embodied by particular villains. (A corporate sponsored super for example, might be sending the wrong messages to kids.)


I do like where you are going, just wanted to make sure the track you were on.

SL,
  Well, the bad guys have to be real super powered guys. They can use high minded concepts for their own nefarious ways, but they have to be aler to raise the challenge and win (or be defeated).

  Also, the characters are made from Tags, not points. But, yeah, I can provide rules for pooling tags to make one big super-bad guy.