I've never been happy with the Evolution of Dungeons and Dragons. It has moved away from its war game roots towards collectable card games and now mmporpgs at a great cost to actual game play. The following rough system draft harkens back to first edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. I consider it all to be open content under the SRD and claim no ownership of the material.
Creating A Character
You create a character by rolling 3d6 for your Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, and picking a race and character class. There are no other legal methods, but don't worry about a bad set of rolls, because you can fix them up later.
Stat Bonuses are -1 per point under six and +1 per point over 15
Strength: increases chance to hit or damage with any given attack
Dexterity: reduces chance to be hit and increases chance to hit
Constitution: increases hit points and saves verses poison and disease
Intelligence: increases number of languages spoken, arcane spells per day, and resists confusion
Wisdom: increases perception, divine spells per day, and saves verses spells
Charisma: increases reaction rolls, maximum number of followers, and loyalty base
Hit Points: A character automatically gets their maximum hit points for their race plus any class hit dice.
Followers: A character can have up to three followers plus their Charisma bonus. Their Loyalty is ten plus their Charisma bonus. Followers must be at least one level lower than their master. Nobles, Clerics, and Wizards will only follow members of their own class.
Races
Humans
Hit Dice: d8
Stats: +1 to any two
Racial Abilities: Free Level in Commoner or Noble
Racial Skills: Any Four
Elves
Stats: +1 Dexterity and Intelligence
Hit Dice: d6
Racial Abilities: Night Vision, Immortality, +5 to Resist Sleep and Charm
Racial Skills: Long Bow, Long Sword, Stealth, Survival
Dwarves
Stats: +2 Constitution
Hit Dice: d8
Racial Abilities: Size -1, Dark Vision, Long Lived, +5 to resist Magic
Racial Skills: Blacksmithing, Mining, Pick Axe, Appraisal
Halflings
Stats: +2 Dexterity, +1 Constitution, -2 Strength
Hit Dice: d6
Racial Abilities: Size -2, +5 to resist Corruption
Racial Skills: Throwing, Stealth, Cooking, Gardening
Character Classes
Fighters
+1 Hit Dice Per level
+1 to Hit with all weapons per level
1 extra attack for every +5 to hit
3d8 x 10 gp at first level
Clerics
+1 Hit Dice per level
+1 to hit with faith appropriate weapons per two levels
cast one spell level per day plus Wisdom bonus
cast all faith appropriate divine spells
3d6 x 10 gp at first level
Commoners
+1 Hit Dice every two levels
+1 to one Craft per level
+1 to Farming and Gardening per level
+1 to hit with Tools every two levels
3d4 x 10 gp at first level
Thieves
+1 Hit Dice every two levels.
+1 to hit with shorts words, daggers, clubs, slings, and thrown daggers per level
+1 to stealth, pick locks, disarm traps, pick pockets, hear noises and detect traps per level
3d6 x 10 gp at first level
Nobles
+1 Hit Dice every two levels
+1 to hit per level with long swords, lances, maces, flails,
+1 to Courtesy per level (reaction rolls from nobles)
+1 to Maximum Followers and Loyalty Base per level
3d12 x 10 gp at first level
Magic Users
+1 Hit Dice every three levels
+1 to hit with Staffs and Daggers every three levels
Cast up to level in spell levels (add Intelligence bonus)
must study spell book for 1 hour to regain one casting level
knows Four first level arcane spells (add Intelligence bonus)
3d4 x 10 gp at first level
Combat
Initiative is rolled each round on 1d20 + Dexterity bonus.
Movement Rates:
Dwarves and Halflings 60
Humans and Elves 90
Horses 120
Attacking
Compare the attacker's weapon to the defender's armour class on the attack table to find the number that must be rolled to hit on 1d20. Add the attacker's Dexterity bonus and Strength bonus to the die roll if they are trying to cleave armour. Subtract the defender's Dexterity bonus and Shield bonus. Size is also added or subtracted as appropriate. A natural 1 always misses and a natural 20 always hits.
http://www3.telus.net/public/uncouths/Document2.pdf
Defending
If a character chooses to they can reduce their bonus to hit with their weapon to reduce their opponent's chance to hit.
If the attack hits roll the damage die appropriate to the weapon used. The attacker's Strength Bonus can be added but will never increase the damage to more than twice the die type. Note that this is because the character's own weapons are built to match their strength and size. Weapons taken from others will only match their owner's strength.
Unarmed: 1d4 (max 8 points)
Short Sword, Dagger, Sling, Club, Arrows: 1d6 (max 12 points)
Mace, 1h Axe, 1h Swords, Light Crossbows: 1d8 (max 16 points)
2h Spears, Pole Arms, Heavy Crossbows: 1d10 (max 20 points)
2h Swords, 2h Axes, Mauls: 1d12 (max 24 points)
Mooks
In big battles one hit dice monsters don't need to have their hit points tracked. Just roll the damage and then their hit points. If the damage is equal or greater than their hit points remove the figure, otherwise, don't.
Experience and Levels
1 per (level) silver pieces spent on training (1 day per silver)
10 times foe's level divided by own level for defeating foes
Dungeon Level x 100 - own level x 10 per dungeon level survived
It costs 1000 experience points to gain a level.
Serious question:
The Original D&D is available as a $5 PDF. Why not just use that with a few of your own houserules? Easier than typing. Honestly.
No weapon verses armour type mods? Weapons only doing a d6 flat? Elves that can't ride horses? Percentile theif's skills? (well with a copy of Greyhawk anyhow)
There's never been an edition of D&D I've liked. Not once. In spite of the fact that there is an excellent game in there it always gets wrecked somehow.
That said I'd like to change the thread title to "BEHOLD MY INFINITE HUBRIS!!!".
Though, honestly the original title has the same meaning.
While I'm thinking about it, I notice that I never mentioned that you can level up your race to get a +1 in all your racial skills. Humans might be a touch too good in that respect.
Also elves can detect secret doors, I'm not sure if that's a skill or ability but I'd like to keep the concept that abilities are innate things that don't level up.
Dwarves can detect sloping passages.
I was thinking of prestige classes but then I realized that most are just class combinations.
Palladin = Noble + Cleric
Barbarian = Scout + Fighter
Ranger = Fighter + Scout
doh! and also, everyone can freely multiclass, as long as they spend a whole level worth of silver on training, your total level is the total of any class levels you have.
A character's physical hit points and heroic luck hitpoints are separate entities. You only get your first level hp as physical hits. In situations where you are asleep, bound, or otherwise unable to move you have to take the damage on the noodle.
Also:
Scout
+1 Hit Dice per two levels
+1 to hit with bows per level
+1 to Stealth, Tracking, Outdoor Survival, and land Navigation per level
Sailor
+1 Hit Dice per two levels
+1 to hit with cutlasses per two levels (arrr matey!)
+1 to Swimming, Climbing, Sailing, Rowing, and Sea Navigation per level
Good lord, there's a lot in there.
In brief:
1. I do like the races/classes integration quite a bit.
2. I suddenly realize how much I missed weapons vs. armor. However, what about natural armors (scales etc.). Don't say they all get their individual column.
3.
QuoteStat Bonuses are -1 per point under six and +1 per point over 15
No difference from 7 to 14? What is this, RIFTS?11??
4.
QuoteHit Points: A character automatically gets their maximum hit points for their race plus any class hit dice.
At the start? Or throughout? What are the class hit dice--the same as the racial ones? If yes to both questions, then Fighters = underpowered, no?
Reorx, how oldschool can you be?!
I mean, if you're into that, fine, but objectively your rules are...well, I'm not really sure if your post is serious.
Why don't you just play Hackmaster if it's nostalgia you seek?
There are seeds of interesting ideas for streamlining the game but it was cloaked in grognardly, Gygaxian nonsense. This idea was particularly bad.
Quote from: David JohansenStat Bonuses are -1 per point under six and +1 per point over 15
Why in hell would you go for this?
But I still think there were interesting ideas there. Have you checked very lite versions of D20? I believe Levi did one and I know James Hargrove did a really good one that is very streamlined. I forgot the names.
I think with more solid fundamentals, you could build your ideas into a good game for your needs.
I guess I should be clear about where I see D&D's strength. D&D is a miniatures wargame with character advancement. This isn't a bad thing. Certainly it's the only circumstance under which I can imagine armour making you harder to hit and hit points increasing by the level not completely ruining a game. This is a game intended to play fast with a couple hundred figures on the table that will have siege rules and naval combat rules lifted from the 1e DMG.
If that wasn't what I was after I'd go play Rolemaster or GURPS.
But for years I've ranted about D&D while saying it always bugs me that later editions run completely counter to the whole point of the thing.
This is the game where your party includes a dozen retainers and the fights are BIG.
In answer to some questions:
The reason I'm using AD&D stat bonuses is that it creates a stat range with no modifiers which is important to the type of game I'm making. I could go with 3e mods though, it's always bugged me that C&C didn't.
Most animals are Armour Class: None or Leather or Cuirbolli, some fantastical creatures rate as chain, scale, or plate. I really should redo the table to include damage for each weapon. The weapon verses armour thing is important to me because the medieval period is all about the evolution of weapons and armour. Keep in mind this is medieval wargame with fantasy added. I've always thought that was a vital element of D&D's flavour.
The hit point thing: Fighters get their racial Hit Die and a class Hit Die at first level as well as a +1 to hit with all weapons. They're the only class with 2 Hit Dice at first level. But they only get maximum hit points on their racial die. This also means they get twice their Constitution bonus at first level.
I'll touch on spells briefly for a moment here. I want to get rid of spell effects that increase with the caster's level and instead allow spells to be cast at a higher level.
Cast a level 3 magic missile and you get three missiles but use three of your available casting levels. Similarly, a L3 FireBall does a whopping d12 in a 15' radius but cast at L6 it does 2d12. Why so little? Well for one thing, if you're in a tight corridor with nowhere to go it does that damage to your physical hit points and not your heroic luck.
Generally speaking there won't be spells that are impossible to survive. You'll always get a saving throw against Sleep and Charm spells. The spells will also follow a fairly rigid classification system with the intent that they be easier to manage in play without looking in the book. Writing a type and a letter code should give you everything you need.
For instance
Sleep: 5' radius L1, saving throw
Fireball: d12 ranged, 15' radius, L3
Magic Missile: d4, ranged L1
Bless: +1 bonus, 1 minute, L1
Quote from: David JohansenI really should redo the table to include damage for each weapon. The weapon verses armour thing is important to me because the medieval period is all about the evolution of weapons and armour.
Given the level of abstraction, if you liked you could ditch variable weapon damage and simply roll the effect entirely into the weapon vs. armor numbers. (Same with bonuses to hit, although there's something to be said for the "feel" of getting a damage bonus based on strength.)
If you go with this idea then you could institute a simple critical rule of counting a 20 as a hit plus a bonus "to hit" roll to see if you get a second hit (and letting that go ad infinitum if so desired).
Quote from: Consonant DudeI believe Levi did one and I know James Hargrove did a really good one that is very streamlined. I forgot the names.
Everyone breaks down and does it eventually. :D
I've done it half a dozen times but this is the first where I've actually used D&D's stats and classes and race assumptions and the core notion of armour making you harder to hit. (which I mostly hate except in the limited context I've discussed)
I'm not looking for a simpler D&D, just one without the self defeating conflicting and redundant methodologies it runs into.
I'll also go into the stat bonus thing in more detail. Palladium is brilliant. Most people miss just how clever the set up is. You never suffer any penalties for low rolls. (except PE and ME) so if you have a couple it doesn't really undermine your ability to play a heroic character. At worst it limits your occ choices. Play a mercenary fighter with a 3 PE? I don't think so. I'm not joking when I tell people that 1st edition Palladium Fantasy is the best edition of D&D.
The nice thing about the 6-14 dead zone set up from AD&D 1e is that most npcs won't have any modifiers at all. This makes it dead easy to run. In Palladium 1e you don't need to stat every npc, a class and a level gives you all their combat and skill information in a glance at the tables on the GM screen.
It's always tempting to make everything work like 1e AD&D thief's skills, with attenuating percentage gains at higher levels, but then, that's why I play Rolemaster. MyD&D is intended to run the kind of big fights I would never run in Rolemaster.
While your ideas are still beyond me, may I humbly ask:
What about Heroscape?
Seems a lot easier, cleaner, with less expensive minitatures.
Besides, Hitpoint-heavy rules like yours would be exactly a reason I don't see a classical D&D hybrid as a sound solution to mass combat. Far to much bookkeeping and clumsy rules.
Quote from: Elliot WilenGiven the level of abstraction, if you liked you could ditch variable weapon damage and simply roll the effect entirely into the weapon vs. armor numbers. (Same with bonuses to hit, although there's something to be said for the "feel" of getting a damage bonus based on strength.)
If you go with this idea then you could institute a simple critical rule of counting a 20 as a hit plus a bonus "to hit" roll to see if you get a second hit (and letting that go ad infinitum if so desired).
Not a bad idea except that variable weapon damage is very conceptually core to D&D and my intent here is to be true to D&D without making a horrible game. (if such a thing is possible...) There won't be lots of funky 2d4 vs d8 vs d6+1 combinations though, they're interesting but of very limited actual utility. Also they slow down the mass combat and it's all about the mass combat.
Quote from: EinzelgaengerWhile your ideas are still beyond me, may I humbly ask:
What about Heroscape?
Seems a lot easier, cleaner, with less expensive minitatures.
Besides, Hitpoint-heavy rules like yours would be exactly a reason I don't see a classical D&D hybrid as a sound solution to mass combat. Far to much bookkeeping and clumsy rules.
Err...why not Warhammer for which I have five painted armies?
The reason I've gone with racial hit dice types is so what were 2 and 3 hit dice monsters can be done with a single die allowing for a simple roll off with whole figure casualty removal for mooks (as I discussed).
Another thing you'll notice is no nerfed npc classes, which are the single worst feature of D&D 3e.
Also my ideas aren't so much beyond you as incoherent ramblings in any case.
Quote from: David JohansenErr...why not Warhammer for which I have five painted armies?
The reason I've gone with racial hit dice types is so what were 2 and 3 hit dice monsters can be done with a single die allowing for a simple roll off with whole figure casualty removal for mooks (as I discussed).
Another thing you'll notice is no nerfed npc classes, which are the single worst feature of D&D 3e.
Also my ideas aren't so much beyond you as incoherent ramblings in any case.
fair enough.
keep your d20 sharp!
In regards of hit-point bookkeeping, you might want to take a look at the way that Savage Worlds handles extras. They have just a Toughness stat, and if the damage is above that treshold they are either momentarily stunned until they make a saving throw in a successive round (Shaken) or killed. This allows to run hordes of NPCs without any book-keeping and removes questions as "which skeleton was the one with only 3HP left, that one with the chipped color on the sword or that with the chipped color on the skull?"
Wild cards (PCs and important NPCs) use basically the same rules, but can take several wounds before they are dead.
The mook roll is intended much as the to hit, to wound, and armour save rolls in Warhammer. If PCs are fighting something you'd probably wat to track their hit points.
Can I que the Laverne & Shirley theme music yet?
Too seventies for you?
Or perhaps Pink Floyd?
(See how that works?)
The Osmonds maybe...But I didn't get to the alignment system yet!
I'm thinking we could set up an alignment matrix with seventies bands.
Up in the upper left we could have The Osmonds, upper right The Jackson Five. Lower Left Led Zepplin and Lower Right Alice Cooper. In the middle we'd put David Bowie since nobody could figure him out anyhow.
On the weapon verses armour table I guess I should share my rationale. Each armour step generally increases the target number by one. But some weapons are lighter or simpler to use, like daggers and clubs, so against no armour they've got a lower base target number but work less well against heavier armours. Piercing weapons are given some advantage against armour but are no easier to hit with. Flails and weapons with funky heads are harder to hit with but deal with armour well, often ignoring light armour. A swung piercing weapon on a long haft like the beck de Corbin is really hard to hit with in general but punches through armour very well. There's also some fudging to avoid making any super weapons. Heavy crossbows are pretty powerful but they take two rounds to load.
Wow. I think I'll be the first one to step in here and say I really like this. It has some of the nice features to me of OD&D and what appear to be skill-like but still class based approaches.
I never was a fan of the bonus v AC in 1e AD&D but see you system working fairly well since there are 6 categories. In addition you've also streamlined weapons yet provided a nifty diffferentiation.
I really like the base class, racial class and class combo, very BD&D/OD&D yet updated.
I actually like how you treat attribute bonuses, for the very reasons you mention, plus others.
Also like the toned-down magic and "use more slots" approach. Seems like a middle-ground between fire-and-forget and spell points.
Finally, it is elegant, a long post but very short for game rule length yet a surprising amount of usuable stuff. This compactness reminds me of how you don't need 100's of pages of rules to describe a game.
I see a lot here that's in the same vein as the stuff I've been working on. :D
This bit:
Quote from: David JohansenBut some weapons are lighter or simpler to use, like daggers and clubs, so against no armour they've got a lower base target number but work less well against heavier armours. Piercing weapons are given some advantage against armour but are no easier to hit with.
what about a dagger though? It's a lighter and simpler to use (lower base target number / work less well against heavier armours) but it's also a piercing weapon (some advantage against armour). Historically, knights would often use a dagger in close combat (2 handed), or even hold their sword with one hand on the blade (they were dull like a a screwdriver head) to apply more force to the thrust and pierce the armour.
I'm making a distinction between 1 and 2 handed weapons for this reason, and you can always 2-hand something like a dagger or sword to get the extra advantage vs. armour.
I too really like what you've done here, and can easily envisage running some of the classic modules with your system. Personally I'd prefer to give all PC's the double whammy of class and race hit dice at 1st leve, but that's just me.
Regarding mooks -- The 'Damage Save' idea is quite nifty, and I could see it scaling upward for more heroically styled campaigns. Roll the monsters (hit die type + con bonus + level) vs. the attackers (damage die + str bonus + level) and you'll have a nice, clean way of taking on more powerful threats without resorting to constant hit point tracking. Just a thought.
Thanks
On consideration of daggers and unarmed attacks I'm adding a Corps a Corps rule allowing you to step in nice and close for a +2 to hit and -4 to be hit by larger weapons until the enemy breaks away and takes a step back. I'll bump up the base to hit for these weapons by two and improve the armour penetration for daggers a bit.
Racial hit dice are stackable with class hit dice, but only fighters get two hitdice at first level. Class hit dice are determined by race incidentally. I'm not sure if that was totally clear. Halfling fighters have 2d6 not 2d10. Still I'll have to think about it. As written at present one could argue that only fighters get one hitdice at first level. That'd really make the mook rule brutal.
Incidentally, it should probably be called the mook verses mook rule. I wouldn't use it with PCs as it puts them at a slight disadvantage.
Also, I'm going to give PCs 2d6+6 on their stats instead of integrating a complex counterbalancing talent system (like Hack Master has)
Okay, here's a pdf of the current state of the rules as well as my old Shadows game I mentioned previously. You'll notice I added a couple races and went a bit beyond just adding a gift for invective to thieves.
http://www3.telus.net/public/uncouths/Basic.pdf
http://www3.telus.net/public/uncouths/Shadows.pdf
Also, what about a name? Every project needs a title.
Castles and Crusades, OSRIC, Basic Fantasy, and several others are already taken.
I'm thinking PLATEMAIL: rules for medieval fantasy games with miniature figures
or perhaps
MAIL CLAD: rules for medieval fantasy games with miniature figures
or maybe
ADVANCED MEN AND MAGIC: rules for medieval fantasy games with miniature figures
or, of course
ADVANCED NOSTALGIA AND NEOPLAGERISM: the fantasy game that was ripped off from that other more famous one
I like AN&N, but note it's Neoplagiarism.
Warthogs & Weapons Tables.
Glaives & Guisarmes.
I got nothing.
Shouldn't that be Glaive-Guisarmies and Gambesons?
Becs & Corbins.
Ranseurs & Rascals.
Gazebos & Godentags.
What we need is a second hyphenated polearm that starts with G.
Then the abreviated title could be EG&G. (Enhanced...)
Nothing says first edition like hyphenated polearm names. :D
Quote from: David JohansenWhat we need is a second hyphenated polearm that starts with G.
Then the abreviated title could be EG&G. (Enhanced...)
Nothing says first edition like hyphenated polearm names. :D
Note that in the original "Strategic Review" article that debuted the "Great Gygax Polearm Fetish", the Glaive-Guisarme had separate stats from the Guisarme-Glaive.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you...
"Enhanced Glaive-Guisarmes & Guisarme-Glaives".
No love for the Bohemian Ear Spoon?
No thanks, I'm more of an Ox Tongue man myself these days.
Seriously though, I'm leaning pretty heavily to Advanced Men & Magic because it refers to book one of the original edition of D&D. Platemail refers to Chainmail of course, but the game I'm writing isn't strictly a development of that system. Maybe for a mass combat supplement.
But no, I think the main reason I'm building this is that it's easier than designing my own games. I'm stuck on the damage system for 100% Fantastic. I'm just completely unmotivated when it comes to Galaxies In Shadow (Clash would kick my ass if he knew how close to done it is and how little I've done on it lately.)
I just happened to post something on the James Hargrove vs Castles and Crusades thread, and suddenly I realized exactly how I'd set up D&D if it were in my hands. So I'm writing it up. I've actually got half a dozen monsters and about a dozen spells done but I want to get a little farther down the road on them before showing them off, just for the sake of consistancy if I decide I need to tweak something.
Well, I'll throw in with the others and say I really like what I see so far. Far better than my attempts to do much the same thing.
I like your approach to ability scores. You have an actual formula in there, and most normal people will have their ability scores in the 6 to 14 range anyway, so that cuts down on needless complexity. I'm not sure if I prefer this over the way 3e handles ability scores or not, but I am intrigued. I also like your idea of "alignment traits", which is something I was toying with myself. Interesting. :)
I've always felt alignments are too vague and absolute. I made it three traits because I wanted it to be impossible to sit on the fence.
Anyhow, I'm over the cold that poleaxed me this week (well, it was more of a bardeche) and I've figured out where to go on the core mechanic.
There isn't one.
There are several resolution methods that have merit in different places.
The most common would be Skill Bonus + Stat Bonus vs Target number in combat. But also, at times, the target's stat will also serve as a target number. For instance the target's Wisdom when sneaking up on someone. Oh, by the way if you backstab someone you get maximum damage directed to physical hitpoints.
But obviously for Stat rolls, that would be not so good. My six is as good as your 14? So for one sided stat rolls you'd just roll under on d20 with a circumstance modifier range of roughly 1-10.
What do the Commoner's abilities do?
Maybe equipment is cheaper for Commoners because they're more canny with money? Maybe they bargain as if their Charisma and/or Wisdom were higher than they really are?
Also, are Nobles meant to be courtiers, or knights?
Commoners grow food and produce goods. If you want to grow food and produce goods or understand the processes involved you'll want some levels in Commoner. It's mainly there to make a reasonable definition of the power level one might expect a peasant to have. A tenth level peasant will be at +5 to hit with that felling axe and have 5 more hit dice. It's useful information but commoners aren't intended as adventurers.
Nobles are the hereditary warrior class once it's become entrenched by feudalism. Most serious knights have fewer levels of Noble than Fighter. Of course, a dashing courtier might have levels in Thief and Noble, a hermetic wizard might have levels in Magic-User, Cleric, and Noble.
One big change I've decided on is 2d6+3 for stats. WHOA WHAT! Well, there's already a mechanism in place for stat gains. And I had some realizations on the core mechanic. To whit the stat bonus is now stat - 10. So a 13 gives a +3 and an 18 a +8! (actually not far from the range of the old 18/00).
This means you can use stats as target numbers. Want to sneak up on someone? Sneak level + Dex Bonus vs Target's Wisdom + Level! It really works well on a lot of levels.
What about the ten point gap? Well it stops making sense the first time you want to do a stat verses stat contest. Instead I'm suggesting that mooks be assumed to have straight tens plus their racial modifiers, which means their bonus equals their racial bonus. Nice huh?
I'm figuring on varying spells by their tactical roles, magic missile is a mook killer, fireball is an indescriminate killer, lightning bolt is for really tough targets (and hence the only stackable damage spell), but meteor swarm, for instance, is just a higher level fireball or stacked fireballs cast at the same time. I need to get to work on it. I'm a fair way in on magic but the holidays have slowed me down a bit.
I'm trying to decide whether it's better for a fifth level mage to be able to cast a third level spell in keeping with the D&D roots or not.
If I went with the idea that you could cast a spell of your level or less for free and essentially reserved energy for higher level spells, I'd need to make the spells have higher levels than they originally did.
Quote from: David JohansenI'm figuring on varying spells by their tactical roles, magic missile is a mook killer, fireball is an indescriminate killer, lightning bolt is for really tough targets (and hence the only stackable damage spell), but meteor swarm, for instance, is just a higher level fireball or stacked fireballs cast at the same time. I need to get to work on it. I'm a fair way in on magic but the holidays have slowed me down a bit.
I'm trying to decide whether it's better for a fifth level mage to be able to cast a third level spell in keeping with the D&D roots or not.
If I went with the idea that you could cast a spell of your level or less for free and essentially reserved energy for higher level spells, I'd need to make the spells have higher levels than they originally did.
This is not a fully formed idea but something I want to toss out for you to think about...
One of the things that makes magic not feel like "magic" in my opinion is when it's too predictable or reliable and not adjustable enough, and I think you are on to something with your tactical roles idea.
Suppose the caster's level essentially translates into dice of damage (or healing or environmental change or number of people effected for things like teleports), so that a first level Magic User does 1d6, a second level Magic User does 2d6, etc. That's base. And suppose the MU needs to make some sort of easy casting check to do that damage against a single target at reasonable range with a basic Saving Throw.
Now, allow the Magic User to change the Damage, Casting Roll, Tactical Role (e.g., additional targets, stackable damage, special effects, etc.), and Saving Throws (including a reduction to No Save) by trading them off against each other.
For example, a 5th level magic user wanting to do 6d6 of damage may need to roll an 8+ on a d20 (5+ for 5d6) and 13+ to get 7d6 of damage. If they want to affect more than one target, they can lose 1d6 of damage per additional target in an adjacent spot (e.g., 2 targets for 4d6, 3 targets for 3d6, etc.) or increase the Casting Difficulty or maybe even making the Saving Throw easier for the targets or the Casting Roll harder. By adjusting those 4 variables against each other (maybe more if you can think of more of them), you could get a pretty wide variety of effects.
The main problem here is to avoid this becoming as unwieldy as the Hero System and one way to mitigate the problem of in-play number crunching and min-maxing may be to require the spell casters to prepare their option selections beforehand or research them and write them into a spell book to study from and apply a heavy penalty for spontaneous casting.
As I said, this isn't a fully formed idea and it might have some bad implications that I'm not seeing. I simply wanted to toss it out as food for thought.
Interesting...I've been thinking about something similar for using ambient energy. Your basic "spell points" are a sure thing but you can try to cast for free (or perhaps reduced cost) if you're willing to expose yourself to some risk.
I'm trying not to stray too far from D&D though, so there will be an option for prepared spells and the spells will be the spells from D&D. I'm going to get it nailed down today.
I'm thinking about something Bradford said and I think I'll be making it so you can custom build spell casters by picking a spell types, casting method and energy source. I think I'll keep the cleric / magic-user split as core because they get different skills.
Magic
Internal Sources
The spell caster channels the power of their own spirit into their spells. They can cast a number of spell levels equal to their spell casting skill before exhausting their capacity. Internal magic is reliable but limited as it takes a full night's sleep to restore the energy expended.
External Sources
Magical energy can also be drawn from the spell caster's surroundings. This energy is volatile and unpredictable. The difficulty of casting a spell from ambient external sources is 20 + Casting Level. If the spell is not successfully cast it cannot be attempted again that day. If the roll is less than the Casting Level the spell caster suffers 1d6 backlash damage per Casting Level. It is possible to use some Internal energy to reduce the difficulty of using External energy.
Rote Spells
The character learns spells through practice and study. They can learn one spell per Level. The spell learned must be of a lower level than their Spell Casting skill.
Talismans
The character pre-casts spells from a spell book, containing them in talismans and fetishes for future use. Only the person who charged a talisman can activate the spell it contains. It takes one hour per Casting Level to charge a talisman. This method allows the use of every spell in book, but requires them to be prepared before they can be cast. While a talisman is charged its creator cannot regain the energy used to power the spell. External energy is spontaneous and localized and thus useless for charging talismans.
Tomes
Spells can be cast directly from written sources. This takes one minute per Casting Level and power must still be obtained from Internal or External sources.
Granted Spells
Those who gain their powers from their service to a deity do not learn spells or channel power from their spirit and surroundings. Instead they are granted one Casting Level per skill level per day from a category of spells that are appropriate to their deity's sphere of influence. Deities are notoriously fickle and saving throws are required for recipients of beneficial spells cast upon those who don't worship them.
Avoidable Spells
Avoidable spells allow their target a chance to dodge out of the way. The difficulty is ten plus the caster's Total Level. If the target can meet or exceed the difficulty on 1d20 + Dexterity Bonus + Total Level they take half damage.
Resisted Spells
Resisted spells allow their target a saving throw. The difficulty is ten plus the caster's magic-user or cleric level, but this can be increased by increasing the spell's casting level. If the target can meet or beat the difficulty on 1d20 + Wisdom Bonus + Total level the spell does not affect them.
Spells
Banish
Range: 30'
Resisted
Casts one creature back to its plane of origin. Obviously, this spell is only useful against creatures that are not on their native plane. Additional casting levels can be used to overcome resistance or affect additional summoned creatures.
Burning Hands
Area: 5 x 5 cone
Damage: 1d4
Fans an area with flames from the magic-users outstretched hands. The fire is only hot enough to ignite tinder, paper, dry grass, and oil.
Charm
Duration: 1 hour
Resisted
The target's mind is befuddled, making their memory hazy and imprinting the notion that the magic-user is a trusted friend. The spell conveys no ability to communicate and is significantly less useful when cast on those who do not speak a language the magic-user does. Their personality and alignment is not changed and as such they may argue with the magic-user, question and even refuse orders. Consider their loyalty to be 12 should any doubt arise. Additional casting levels can be used to overcome the target's resistance, increase their loyalty, affect an additional creature, or increase the spell's duration.
Dispel Magic
Range: 60'
Puts an end to a spell of a lower casting level. If the caster gets the initiative Dispel Magic can be cast preemptively on a spell that is being cast.
Enchant Item
Duration: Permanent
Binds a single spell permanently to an item. This allows the person who holds it and knows the word of command to use that spell at will. Enchant Item must be cast at twice the level of the spell being bound in the item at which the item must make a saving throw against a crushing blow or be shattered by the energies unleashed within it. For this reason a great deal of care is put into creating an item intended for enchantment. Usually it will be of the highest possible quality and ritually prepared to reduce the innate magic resistance of the materials used.
Ensorcel Item
Duration: 1 hour
A single tool, weapon, shield, or suit of armour is entwined in a mystical aura that makes it more durable, sure, and sharp, giving a +1 bonus for its use. Additional casting levels can increase the duration or the bonus.
Fireball
Range 100'
Area: 5' Radius
Damage: 1d6
The magic-user hurls a small gout of magical fire towards the target where it explodes in a holocaust of flame. If the fireball fills the available area it will rush down corridors and fill out into intersections until its maximum volume is reached. Additional casting levels can be used to increase the radius or damage.
Floating Disc
Duration: 1 hour
Conjures a simple ectoplasmic entity which follows the caster around, hovering a few feet above the ground. The entity is flat, dish shaped and able to be loaded with up to one hundred pounds of goods. Additional casting levels can be used to increase the duration or the load capacity / size of the entity by another hundred pounds, though such large Floating Discs only fit through double doors.
Magic Missile
Range 150'
Damage: 1d6
Conjures a dart of magical energy which unerringly strikes a target selected by the caster. Additional casting levels produce additional darts.
Monster Summoning
Duration: 1 hour
Calls up a single, first level creature from the outer planes to serve the caster. Creatures from the material, elemental, ethereal planes cannot be summoned because the outer planes are not congruent with locations on the material plane. The creature willingly responds to the magic-user's commands but will not violate its alignment, if a conflict or doubt arises its Loyalty is 10. The type of creature is chosen by the caster when the spell is cast. Additional casting levels can extend the duration or the level of the creature summoned.
Shield
Duration: 1 minute
Gives the target protection equivalent to a large shield, reducing the chance to hit for ranged attacks by three and for melee attacks by one. A shield spell also provides absolute protection from magic missiles. Additional casting levels increase the protection provided by one point or increase the spell's duration.
Sleep
10 x 10 area
Resisted
Causes targets in the area to fall into a deep but natural sleep. Loud noises and injuries will cause them to awaken but it takes a full round to shake off the drowsiness. The length of time the targets sleep depends entirely on how tired they were in the first place. Extra casting levels can be used to expand the area affected or to overcome resistance.
Well there's where I'm at with the magic. There's many spells to be written yet.
I'm also wondering if I should ditch the weapon table even though it's a distinguishing feature and goodness only knows D&D variants need a few of those. Never the less, sacred cows occasionally need to be sacrificed.
Instead I'm thinking that simple blunt weapons like clubs and staves should be +1 to hit, while swung piercing weapons and flails should be +2 penetration but -1 to hit. I'd integrate a -1 to hit into the range stats for longbows as well and possibly a +1 for crossbows. It's not as detailed as the table but it's less cludgy and more flowing.
It would also let me do partial armour, though it wouldn't go much beyond doubling the defense bonus for a type of armour. That would be closer to the classic AC range and balance a bit better with the higher attribute bonuses.
Okay, here's the current state of affairs. There's a lot of little changes here and there as well as some more spells and monsters. I still havent decided how I want to set spell levels but I do want them to correspond pretty closely to their traditional levels.
http://www3.telus.net/public/uncouths/AM&M.pdf
Quote from: John MorrowNow, allow the Magic User to change the Damage, Casting Roll, Tactical Role (e.g., additional targets, stackable damage, special effects, etc.), and Saving Throws (including a reduction to No Save) by trading them off against each other.
Check out the OMNI system (Talislanta). You can create your own spells on the fly, and each variable for a spell (area of effect, damage, duration, etc.) has a value. Add up the values and you have the spell difficulty. You can try to cast a spell of any difficulty level. However, your casting roll (d20 + mods) has to meet or exceed the spell difficulty in order to cast it successfuly. If you fail to cast it successfully, the spell may have weaker effects, it can fail altogether, or it can backfire with calamitous results.
I haven't used the system in practice, but it looks very flexible and it provides the uncertainty and riskiness that I like to see in magic. The Talislanta 4th Edition Sampler (http://www.talislanta.com/download.htm) includes a rundown on the magic system.
I'm going to re-state my design objectives here just to make them clear.
Advanced Men & Magic is a redesign/rewrite of Dungeons&Dragons that is focused on the miniatures based heroic adventure aspect of the game. My core goal is to streamline the system while making it as close to AD&D as possible. The as close to AD&D as possible aspect includes trying to get spell levels to match up. The only reason I've made the spell levels scalable is that I feel it's important that magic-users not get the free exponential power gain that they get in AD&D.
I'm just finishing an updated method of character creation that makes the skills for each class more distinct and clear as well as dovetailing class abilities into the skill concept.
Incidentally this is still a class and level system with pre-set skills by class. I've loosened it up a bit so that all skills improve by one per level so you can just add your level to rolls for the most part. But there are two elective skills per level that can be used for other things like getting your wizard a sword.
Well, a bit of a slow week, I'm stuck on how to do spells, but it's coming a little at a time. I've also finished the skill revision.
So anyhow here's what I'm thinking. One level of a spell generally does 1d6 damage at a range of 120 yards. That's magic missile as the base line. Uping the die type takes 30 yards off the range lowering it adds 30. Increasing the area by 5'radius takes 60 yards off the range.
So, for example Fireball L3 - 1d12 at 90 yards and 30'r, why a d12? Well I want mook blasters to only need one die per target.
Now, general effects are a bit harder but figure that 10'r is one level and 180' is one level more or less. Every +/-1 is worth a level but if it's only to one skill type then it's only half a level.
The actual power of the general effect is tied to the level and the planes.
First Level spells have effects that can generally be mimicked by mundane means and skills with a little more time.
Second Level spells match up with the capabilities of minor magical beings such as nymphs and dryads but are unable to break the planar bounds.
Third Level spells are on the level of minor etherial beings being able to cross planar bounds and carry effects over into the etherial plane.
Fourth Level spells are able to cross into the elemental planes and create effects similar to those of moderately powerful etherial and elemental beings and minor divine servitors.
Fifth Level spells are equal to the powers and spheres of greater divine servitors and elemental creatures and can cross into and effect the astral planes.
Sixth Level spells are on par with the capacities of minor dieties and able to reach the lower spheres of the outer planes and create effects on par with the abilities of minor deities including power over life and death.
Seventh Level spells are able to match the powers of greater gods and reach the higher spheres of the outer planes. Such spells can grant the power of giving life to the unliving to their weilders.
Eighth Level spells are able to reach the positive and negative material planes and in doing so provide powers of anhilation and creation.
Nineth Level spells equal the powers of the kings of the gods and give mastery over time and space.
Okay here's the pretty much final version of spell design and some spells. All spells can be scaled by simply multiplying the effects and the casting level or by adding levels of effects that the spell already contains.
Also, I'm getting closer to done the character creation and class revision. Essentially each class gives you a list of skills much like Palladium used to and lets you pick a couple skills. The skills still get a +1 per level but each class has a skill or two that aren't available elsewhere. The reason I'm going this direction is that it codifies things and makes some balancing issues easier. One side note is that Hit Dice are an elective choice for all classes other than Fighters and Races. This makes it a little easier to do the mage who knows how to fight though you're still better off grabbing a level of fighter.
Saving Throws
All spells allow a saving throw to reduce their effects by half, usually in terms of damage or duration. A critical success divides the effects by four while a critical failure doubles them. A character is never required to make a saving throw if they are willing to accept the consequences.
Attribute Bonus + Resistance Skill vs Intelligence or Wisdom + Spell Casting skill
Determining Level of New Spells
The level of a spell is mainly based on what it does. A first level spell cannot create matter only shape it. A ninth level spell can create intelligent life from a handful of dust. All spells allow a saving throw, normally based on Wisdom to for half duration of general effects and Dexterity for half damage. Additional effects must be stacked on top of the level of the base effect. The effects can also be divided between effects as long as the base capability level is maintained.
For instance, a fire ball does 1d12 damage, with a five foot radius and a range of 360 yards it's a third level spell.
Area: 10' radius hemisphere per level
Bonus: +6 to one specific action per level
Damage: 1d12 per full level
Duration: 1 hour per full level
Movement: 360' per level
Range: 360 feet per full level
Summoning / Shape Change = change by level
First Level
Capabilities: alter base matter
Reach: Line of Sight
Second Level
Capabilities: alter elemental matter
Reach: etherial plane
Third Level
Capabilities: transmute base matter
Reach: elemental planes
Fourth Level
Capabilities: separate and purify elemental matter
Reach: positive & negative planes
Fifth Level
Capabilities: transmute elemental matter
Reach: astral plane
Sixth Level
Capabilities: power over life and death
Reach: friendly outer planes
Seventh Level
Capabilities: create base mater and plants
Reach: allied outer planes
Eighth Level
Capabilities: create beasts and animals
Reach: hostile outer planes
Ninth Level
Capabilities: create sentient life
Reach: all space, time, and dimensions/interstellar
Level One
Armour
Duration: 20 minutes
Saving Throw: Dexterity for half duration
Increases the target's Armour Class by 4 without impeding movement or other actions.
Bless
Duration: 30 minutes
Saving Throw: Wisdom for half duration
A kindly word of comfort fills the target with hope and renewed determination giving them +1 to morale checks, saving throws, and attack rolls.
Burning Hands
Area: 45 degree arc, 10' radius
Saving Throw: Dexterity for half damage
Fire sprays from the caster's outstretched hands causing 1d4 damage to all targets in the affected area.
Charm Person
Duration: 30 minutes
Saving Throw: Intelligence for half duration
Causes the target to believe themselves to be the caster's close friend. They will respond to reasonable requests favorably and fight to protect the caster.
Cure Wounds
Saving Throw: Dexterity for half healing
The caster lays their hands on the target's wounds, healing 1d12 points of damage.
Curse
Duration: 30 minutes
Saving Throw: Wisdom for half duration
A spiteful word fills the target with doubt and confusion giving them a -1 to their morale checks, saving throws, and attack rolls.
Dispel Magic
Cancels out one first level spell or prevents the target from casting one in the current round.
Enlarge
Duration: 30 minutes
Saving Throw: Wisdom for half duration
Doubles the target's height and increases their weight four fold. This gives +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, and -1 Dexterity.
Floating Disc
Duration: 30 minutes
The caster calls up a shimmering disk of magical force that floats five feet behind them and can be loaded up with as much as a person with a Strength of 13 could carry.
Magic Missile
Range: 180'
Saving Throw: Dexterity for half damage.
A glowing dart of mystical energy leaps from the caster's hand to unerringly strike the target for 1d6 damage.
Protection From Alignment
Duration: 30 minutes
Saving Throw: Wisdom for half duration
The target is surrounded with a shimmering aura that provides +1 to Defense, Saving Throws, and Morale when facing supernatural creatures of the specified alignment.
Reduce
Duration: 30 minutes
Saving Throw: Wisdom for half duration
The caster's touch shrinks the target to half their normal height and reduces their weight by a factor of four. This gives them +3 Dexterity, -1 Constitution, and -1 Strength.
Shield
Duration: 30 minutes
Saving Throw: Dexterity
A translucent dome appears before the target giving them +6 to their Defense from the front only. The shield moves with the target but always faces their front. A shield spell also negates magic missiles fired at the protected individual.
Sleep
Range: 60'
Area: 10' Radius
Saving Throw: Wisdom to negate
The caster's whispered lullaby and a pinch of sand cause all of the targets in the area to fall fast asleep. This is non-magical sleep. Noises and being bumped will wake the target if they can make a saving throw. Loud noises like screams and fighting wake them automatically after the first round.
Spider Climb
Duration: 10 minutes
Saving Throw: Wisdom for half duration
The target can climb like a spider, getting a +5 to all climbing rolls.