d6-d6

Ghost Whistler · April 09, 2013, 06:16:52 AM

I'm considering using this kind of system, similar to the fudge dice. Add d6 to skill then subtract d6, but it seems entirely too random.

If you have a skill of 5 and the difficulty is even one less you really aren't at a particularly good advantage. Am I missing something here?

Grymbok · April 09, 2013, 06:42:31 AM

With only two dice you have a fairly staggered distribution with a wide range of values.

Here's the probabilities for d6-d6 - http://anydice.com/program/20da

You actually have a 72% chance of rolling at least -1, so you are OK at basic skills.

The thing to remember about Fudge dice is that the actual printed dice are essentially d3s, and so the range of values is smaller. The classic 4dF is actually 4d3-8. That creates much more reliability in the centre zone - over 60% of rolls will be between -1 and +1 (http://anydice.com/program/20db).

d4-d4 might work better for you if you're happy to lose the extremes?

Ghost Whistler · April 09, 2013, 06:51:01 AM

-1 still means you fail at actions with a difficulty the same as your skill.

it just feels wrong.

Grymbok · April 09, 2013, 06:56:22 AM

Well then I guess the question becomes:

- What % of the time should people perform at their skill level in your game (and should this % vary by skill level)?
- What degree of variance in performance above and beyond their skill level are you looking for?

Ghost Whistler · April 09, 2013, 07:02:13 AM

it doesn't seem like a very heroic system. Perhaps more suited to 'reality'.

I want the hero to have a decent chance to pop the enemy if the enemy is more skilled. I can't put an exct percentage on it, but it seems that with this system a guy of skill 5 fights a guy of skill 6 - not a huge difference (at least represented numerically) - and he is going to fail more often than not because the dice average at +0.

Grymbok · April 09, 2013, 07:06:47 AM

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;644349it doesn't seem like a very heroic system. Perhaps more suited to 'reality'.

I want the hero to have a decent chance to pop the enemy if the enemy is more skilled. I can't put an exct percentage on it, but it seems that with this system a guy of skill 5 fights a guy of skill 6 - not a huge difference (at least represented numerically) - and he is going to fail more often than not because the dice average at +0.

Yeah, pretty much. A lot of Fudge variants make combat an opposed roll for this reason.

EDIT: That being said, d6-d6 does give you a 40% chance to roll at least +1, which is a fairly solid number.

Bloody Stupid Johnson · April 09, 2013, 08:14:49 AM

d6-d6 gives the same distribution curve as 2d6, barring other peculiarities (like having the negative die and positive die explode separately, as in Feng Shui).
Overall its probably easier to do that, and use [stat + 7] to get target number, since it means not having to designate which is +/- before rolling.

Not what you were asking I know, sorry...

Ladybird · April 09, 2013, 08:23:04 AM

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;644346-1 still means you fail at actions with a difficulty the same as your skill.

it just feels wrong.

"Don't roll the dice unless both success and failure could be interesting, or the character is in a stressful situation".

Job done. Don't bother going to the mechanics unless you need to.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;644359d6-d6 gives the same distribution curve as 2d6, barring other peculiarities (like having the negative die and positive die explode separately, as in Feng Shui).
Overall its probably easier to do that, and use [stat + 7] to get target number, since it means not having to designate which is +/- before rolling.

And the player who always forgets which is which, or rolls two dice the same colour and style...

Nicephorus · April 09, 2013, 08:51:21 AM

I've played around a bit with d4-d4, which goes form -3 to +3 instead of the -5 to +5 of d6-d6 so it's a bit more predictable. d4-d4 has a similar distribution to 4 Fudge dice, except the latter has a 1/81 for -4 (and same for +4).

I like the idea of d#-d#. Think of it as your good luck minus your bad luck.

Grymbok · April 09, 2013, 08:56:05 AM

Just thought - if you want something not quite as zero biased, maybe try something like d6-d4 instead?

Ghost Whistler · April 09, 2013, 09:04:41 AM

Unfortunately I much prefer symmetry. I'd rather not use things like that.

Bill · April 09, 2013, 10:24:30 AM

What about +2d6-2d6 ?

jcfiala · April 09, 2013, 10:51:19 AM

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;644349it doesn't seem like a very heroic system. Perhaps more suited to 'reality'.

I want the hero to have a decent chance to pop the enemy if the enemy is more skilled. I can't put an exact percentage on it, but it seems that with this system a guy of skill 5 fights a guy of skill 6 - not a huge difference (at least represented numerically) - and he is going to fail more often than not because the dice average at +0.

Well, I'll point out that ICONS uses this system, and it's pretty heroic from what I've heard. (I've read the system, but not played it.) Perhaps include some FUDGE/FATE points to allow for occasional +2 or rerolls? As it is, you've got a 40% chance of rolling a +1 or better - that's not bad for going up against someone better than you are.

Nicephorus · April 09, 2013, 11:52:01 AM

One more thing to keep in mind is the scale of the skills (or ability + skills) that serve as the base matters. +/-5 is a big deal with abilities rated 1-4, but not so much if the rating is 1-20.

jadrax · April 09, 2013, 12:18:51 PM

If your using 1d6-1d6, it means if you have an Average Skill and attempt a task of Average Difficulty, you will succeed most of the time.

I don't see the issue tbh.

The Babylon Project used this exact system, although its kind of hard to pick up a copy these days.