Hmm, I think you have the order backwards but it is not that important to me.

I think Luna should stay uninhabitable on the surface. It lets us do moon bases, domes and fun stuff like that.

If we are going to make Triton habitable...man, I think we should go all out and make it a tech wonder. Orbital mirrors, exotic biomechanical environmental helpers, geo-thermal pumps...the whole nine yards. I would make the entire planet an artifact from the Ancients. Possibly, make it a peaceful planet in that an ancient super computer manages the whole mess and enforces peace through an armada of robots under its control. The biological inhabitants are childlike in their development and, I almost think, a non-player race.

I think Titan should be a Martian artifact.

I disagree on the whole "Earth can't be monolithic" point. I could see a very easy joining of power if we learned the other planets were inhabited, especially by hostiles. Mind, this does not rule out different factions or even having the countries we do today.  That said, we can make it a divided world with many countries. I think that will make it a much less dominant Earth.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltHmm, I think you have the order backwards but it is not that important to me.

Mmmm... The order in Laplacian Nebular Theory is the further out the planet, the older. Neptune and Triton were formed before Saturn, when the sun was larger, so it's inhabitants were before the Saturnian inhabitants. As the sun shrank and Neptune and Saturn cooled off, Triton and Titan needed more and more terraforming to stay habitable. Right now in the game universe, they couldn't be habitable.

QuoteI think Luna should stay uninhabitable on the surface. It lets us do moon bases, domes and fun stuff like that.

Agreed then. It was an option.

QuoteIf we are going to make Triton habitable...man, I think we should go all out and make it a tech wonder. Orbital mirrors, exotic biomechanical environmental helpers, geo-thermal pumps...the whole nine yards. I would make the entire planet an artifact from the Ancients. Possibly, make it a peaceful planet in that an ancient super computer manages the whole mess and enforces peace through an armada of robots under its control. The biological inhabitants are childlike in their development and, I almost think, a non-player race.

I think I like it being a natural world that now can't exist without technology. I think that would be more interesting...

QuoteI think Titan should be a Martian artifact.

Well, I had pegged it's terraforming to the people of the fifth planet, who defeated the original inhabitants when Earth was still molten and Mars was just starting life.

QuoteI disagree on the whole "Earth can't be monolithic" point. I could see a very easy joining of power if we learned the other planets were inhabited, especially by hostiles. Mind, this does not rule out different factions or even having the countries we do today.  That said, we can make it a divided world with many countries. I think that will make it a much less dominant Earth.

Bill

Oh, that can be accomodated, it's one of the options I suggested. There may be a planetary government or overarching UN-thing, but Earth itself is still divided into nations and factions. That would also be more interesting! I just didn't want it to be all vanilla "Earthers."

-clash

Clash, got this from tBP

http://www.ironsky.net/

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RClash, got this from tBP

http://www.ironsky.net/

Regards,
David R

Tres cool, David! I'd so do this with Cold Space/FTL Now!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceMmmm... The order in Laplacian Nebular Theory is the further out the planet, the older. Neptune and Triton were formed before Saturn, when the sun was larger, so it's inhabitants were before the Saturnian inhabitants. As the sun shrank and Neptune and Saturn cooled off, Triton and Titan needed more and more terraforming to stay habitable. Right now in the game universe, they couldn't be habitable.

Ahh, sorry. I was thinking SDNM. All clear now captain.

Quote from: flyingmiceI think I like it being a natural world that now can't exist without technology. I think that would be more interesting...

Perhaps I was unclear. I was thinking natural as well but all the tech surrounding it and supporting it would be Ancient Fifth Worlder. This would make a setting for all manner of interesting campaigns. It would just mean Neptune cooled faster or Triton was a captured moon from Kiuplur. This is supported by the retrograde orbit. Thus, we could have the Ancients needing to start out with some terraforming and continue to support it with more and more complex systems.

I mean, it is just an idea.

Quote from: flyingmiceWell, I had pegged it's terraforming to the people of the fifth planet, who defeated the original inhabitants when Earth was still molten and Mars was just starting life.

hmm, I just wonder about making too many things part of the ancients. Do we want to keep them as spice or have them as a main course?

Quote from: flyingmiceOh, that can be accomodated, it's one of the options I suggested. There may be a planetary government or overarching UN-thing, but Earth itself is still divided into nations and factions. That would also be more interesting! I just didn't want it to be all vanilla "Earthers."

-clash

No, definitely not. I don't think I could do that if I tried. I have a rough enough time as it is blanding out cultures.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltAhh, sorry. I was thinking SDNM. All clear now captain.

Cool then!

QuotePerhaps I was unclear. I was thinking natural as well but all the tech surrounding it and supporting it would be Ancient Fifth Worlder. This would make a setting for all manner of interesting campaigns. It would just mean Neptune cooled faster or Triton was a captured moon from Kiuplur. This is supported by the retrograde orbit. Thus, we could have the Ancients needing to start out with some terraforming and continue to support it with more and more complex systems.

I mean, it is just an idea.

OK - I'm cool with this!

Quotehmm, I just wonder about making too many things part of the ancients. Do we want to keep them as spice or have them as a main course?

Well, the Laplacian theory posits intelligence arising on every world in sequence as it in tuen became habitable. Thus we'd have three sets of overlapping ancients, the Neptunians, the Saturnians, and the Jovians, all long gone, before we got to the fifth planet, which I will call Minerva They would be so far in the past that they would just be mysteries, whereas the Minervans may even survive to the present day. They existed within the written history of the Martians, who destroyed their planet.

QuoteNo, definitely not. I don't think I could do that if I tried. I have a rough enough time as it is blanding out cultures.

Bill

We are all cool, then! I am completely inline with this!

-clash

An interesting consequence of the theoretical underpinnings of the setting is the possible existence of natural transuranic elements. At the time, the heaviest element to be discovered was Uranium, but nothing in the theories makes natural transuranics impossible. Perhaps that's what they are mining on the moon instead of Helum3, which would be useless without fusion, and fusion was not a great power source under the old theories. Fusion as we know it is the consequence of the theories of relativity. which in the setting was just a crank theory no one paid attention to.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceAn interesting consequence of the theoretical underpinnings of the setting is the possible existence of natural transuranic elements.

I haven't read the thread, so I can't piece this into the setting, but plutonium and neptunium are both transuranics found on Earth, and several others probably exist in the universe which just don't happen to be on Earth. More controversially, there are claims that an Israeli group recently found small amounts of naturally-occurring unbibium in a sample of thorium by firing single thorium atoms through a mass spec sensor; these claims are not impossible, but they are being met with skepticism such that the paper was rejected by Nature.

What do you mean I'm pedantic? That's not bad, is it?

Quote from: EngineI haven't read the thread, so I can't piece this into the setting, but plutonium and neptunium are both transuranics found on Earth, and several others probably exist in the universe which just don't happen to be on Earth. More controversially, there are claims that an Israeli group recently found small amounts of naturally-occurring unbibium in a sample of thorium by firing single thorium atoms through a mass spec sensor; these claims are not impossible, but they are being met with skepticism such that the paper was rejected by Nature.

What do you mean I'm pedantic? That's not bad, is it?

Hi Engine!

The problem with natural transuranics is their relatively short half-lives. The longest lived isotopes of Neptunium and Plutonium are indeed found in nature, but only in trace amounts. Under the current undertanding of the age of the Earth, they are too ephemeral to last in significant quantities. OTOH, under the Laplacian Nebular Theory and Ether Vortex Theory, the theoretical underpinning of the setting, the age of the solar system is in the tens of millions of years maximum, and so 244Pu for example, with a half-life of about 80 million years, could be found in significant amounts. That it does not occur on earth in other than trace deposits is a localized phenomenon, and unlikely to be repeated on other bodies.

-clash

With a maximum age of the solar system so short, you'll have unbibium flying out of your ears! It'd be, well, not as common as lead, but you'll still have an incredible number of heavy elements lying conveniently around. [Well, I don't know how convenient it is to have a lot of unbibium, but you know what I mean.] Fascinating.

Quote from: EngineWith a maximum age of the solar system so short, you'll have unbibium flying out of your ears! It'd be, well, not as common as lead, but you'll still have an incredible number of heavy elements lying conveniently around. [Well, I don't know how convenient it is to have a lot of unbibium, but you know what I mean.] Fascinating.

Averaged over the solar system, yes. It is demonstrably wrong here on earth, at least in the areas of the crust we can reach, therefore these large amounts lie somewhere else in the system.

FYI, the postulated forking date from our own universe is c. 1900. Anything discovered or accepted in theory before that date is fact. Anything afterwards is only true if it agrees with the theories accepted before that date. Therefore, both special and general relativity are regarded as crank theories by some nobody patent clerk in Switzerland, and are demonstrably wrong in certain areas, even though Einstein himself attempted to set those theories within the framework of Ether Vortex Theory in the real world.

-clash

umm, its a game so take this in the spirit is intended. Heavy metals are not good for anyone's health. Will this be a concern or are we just going to be happy-happy about it?

Also, are we taking gravity in to account with the races? Essentially, Minerva and Earth would be the big boys in terms of gravity right? I mean, most other races will then be light-worlders and the idea of an invasion to Earth would be suicide. However, Earthling invading Mars or the other satellites should be just fine. Venusians might have a shot but any of the moons, even Triton, is much lower gravity. Unless we just want to ignore this issue?

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltumm, its a game so take this in the spirit is intended. Heavy metals are not good for anyone's health. Will this be a concern or are we just going to be happy-happy about it?

We'll go with an un-uniform disribution of heavy metals. They're concentrated on lifeless moons - after all, if there was that much heavy metal on a world, it wouldn't be very conducive to life...

QuoteAlso, are we taking gravity in to account with the races? Essentially, Minerva and Earth would be the big boys in terms of gravity right? I mean, most other races will then be light-worlders and the idea of an invasion to Earth would be suicide. However, Earthling invading Mars or the other satellites should be just fine. Venusians might have a shot but any of the moons, even Triton, is much lower gravity. Unless we just want to ignore this issue?

Bill

Gravity was - unlike radioactivity - very well understood. Venus, Earth and Minerva would be the heavy worlds, The outer moons light worlds, and Mars in between, and the inhabitants would be structured accordingly. Humans or dinos from - say - Titan would be very tall and willowy, and much weaker than those from Venus or Earth.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceWe'll go with an un-uniform disribution of heavy metals. They're concentrated on lifeless moons - after all, if there was that much heavy metal on a world, it wouldn't be very conducive to life...



Gravity was - unlike radioactivity - very well understood. Venus, Earth and Minerva would be the heavy worlds, The outer moons light worlds, and Mars in between, and the inhabitants would be structured accordingly. Humans or dinos from - say - Titan would be very tall and willowy, and much weaker than those from Venus or Earth.

-clash

Just bringing it up as a point to keep in mind. It sounds like Minerva, Venus or Earth would need to be the real agressor worlds out of pure physilogical necessity. Mars seems...unlikely but possible. hmmm, idea.

Do we want exo-suits? This would extend player character possibilities to the light worlders. Also, it would help explain Martian aggression. I mean, how exactly would a Martian have hunted and captured enough humans or dinos to populate other worlds? It is nice to think tech (tranq guns, tow cables and the like) might do it but at some point you have to get out of the boat....WAIT! NEVER GET OUT OF THE BOAT!!!!! O.k. better now.

So, to reiterate. Seems like an opportunity to introduce exo-suits if we want them. No, not mecha but more like T.O.A.D.s or those motor-cycle things in Robotech. And we could make them as rare or common as we like. If rare, they could be like a family Katana in Japan. Handed down generation to generation and treasured. If not, we can make them somewhat annoying to use.

Just a thought.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltJust bringing it up as a point to keep in mind. It sounds like Minerva, Venus or Earth would need to be the real agressor worlds out of pure physilogical necessity. Mars seems...unlikely but possible. hmmm, idea.

Do we want exo-suits? This would extend player character possibilities to the light worlders. Also, it would help explain Martian aggression. I mean, how exactly would a Martian have hunted and captured enough humans or dinos to populate other worlds? It is nice to think tech (tranq guns, tow cables and the like) might do it but at some point you have to get out of the boat....WAIT! NEVER GET OUT OF THE BOAT!!!!! O.k. better now.

So, to reiterate. Seems like an opportunity to introduce exo-suits if we want them. No, not mecha but more like T.O.A.D.s or those motor-cycle things in Robotech. And we could make them as rare or common as we like. If rare, they could be like a family Katana in Japan. Handed down generation to generation and treasured. If not, we can make them somewhat annoying to use.

Just a thought.

Bill

I have no problem with it, especially if they were antiques limited to the outworlders. They'd make up for the lack of natural strength.

-clash