I think how one achives a game world that isverisimilar is the difference here. Or how one achives the "real".

For some players knowing every little detail of a world makes the world seem more real in their imagination, and they are looking for this "real" (among other things off course).
It is about the feeling of being there.

For others it is about spending energy on the things they need to make the game move forward, and accepting that the other things are just as "real", we just don't the details of them yet.
It is also about the feeling of being there.

For some the details help give this "real".
For others the details disturb the "real".

I used to play the way Sett and AM describe. I had tons of fun doing it that way.
Now I do it differently. I play like Paka. I make things up as I go along, and then use rules like the BE color to mechanics to make sure I don't completly pull it out of my ass (or my players from their sphincters) and that the rules remain fair.

Why?

Because I am a lazy GM. I can't be bothered to focus my creative energies on statting out a whole planetary system, when my players are just going to hyperspace through it, for the off chance that they might decide to stay.

Yet I want to achive a certain verisimilitude. Which is why having mechanics that let me take a piece of undetailed color, and make it "real" in a game sense are brilliant.

They let me play like I used to, except now I don't have to do half the work. But for some people "the work" is part of the fun. Just like for some people buying 6 thick books with setting information is fun. While for me its a waste of money cause I'll just do my own thing anyways.

If I want what Sett describes I'll play EVE. Because it does the work for me.

Quote from: meCharacters come afterwards, generally. But keep in mind there's no "tailoring" to fit; Traveler (as well as Universe, as examples) are totally random.

But I also concede that both examples are perfectly workable.

In my Universe Campaign, I started out by building just one star system (5 planets), and then I built the one next to it in case anyone wanted to try and explore it. Each star system has it's own "character sheet" which lists the sun, what class star it is, (which effects the biosphere of life-sustaining planets), what orbit they are in, what resources are located where, all of that. There is something similar in Trav. I'm awaiting the Mongoose version, I guess.

Star system and planet generation in both systems is done by nested tables.

Quote from: PakaCould you give me some cool examples from your games on how this worked?

I'm not sure what you mean... How what worked? Star system building (like character generation) is all done during preparation. It worked like I like I printed out a copy of the Star System sheet and filled it in. I only rediscovered Universe about two months ago, so there's no recent gaming I can tell you about yet.

I can tell you about how it worked when I ran a game in college, though.

If your'e asking how trade works, thats kinda all there is to it. In Universe I recently put together a little deal where the characters are able to rent a cargo pod to start out, and have to pay for the cargo as well as a payment on the pod and transport. My idea now is to eventually get a starship into the hands of the PCs as part of the campaign.  

In the old campaign, the characters were recruited at a spaceport as rescue experts for a lost survey team. (Basicly this was an extended version of Lost on Laidley, if your'e familiar with Universe) but with some extra stuff thrown in.

During this period it seemed like we played all SPI games and Champions. Universe was just one of those. The fantasy game of choice was Dragonquest.

Quote from: K BergI think how one achives a game world that isverisimilar is the difference here. Or how one achives the "real".

For some players knowing every little detail of a world makes the world seem more real in their imagination, and they are looking for this "real" (among other things off course).
It is about the feeling of being there.

For others it is about spending energy on the things they need to make the game move forward, and accepting that the other things are just as "real", we just don't the details of them yet.
It is also about the feeling of being there.

For some the details help give this "real".
For others the details disturb the "real".

I used to play the way Sett and AM describe. I had tons of fun doing it that way.
Now I do it differently. I play like Paka. I make things up as I go along, and then use rules like the BE color to mechanics to make sure I don't completly pull it out of my ass (or my players from their sphincters) and that the rules remain fair.

Why?

Because I am a lazy GM. I can't be bothered to focus my creative energies on statting out a whole planetary system, when my players are just going to hyperspace through it, for the off chance that they might decide to stay.

Yet I want to achive a certain verisimilitude. Which is why having mechanics that let me take a piece of undetailed color, and make it "real" in a game sense are brilliant.

They let me play like I used to, except now I don't have to do half the work. But for some people "the work" is part of the fun. Just like for some people buying 6 thick books with setting information is fun. While for me its a waste of money cause I'll just do my own thing anyways.

If I want what Sett describes I'll play EVE. Because it does the work for me.

Yes. Perhaps one day we can all be evolved into a true role-player instead of just a "roll" player.

NORSELARP IS MOST ADVANCED LARP. ALL OTHER LARPS ARE 10 YEARS BEHIND NORSE LARP TECHNOLOGY!

(I actually have a lot of fun doing this comical "Norwegian larp supremacist character" for my friends sometimes. )

You're missing the point, Kaare. It's not verisimilitude, it's gameability. But hey, thanks for the uninformed, condescending post.

Who even buys setting books?

Abyssmal,

how fitting.

I game.

I just don't write up the entire world before hand.

That is the difference, thank you for putting words in my mouth, it is very rewarding. Please continue.

Quote from: K BergI think how one achives a game world that isverisimilar is the difference here. Or how one achives the "real".

For some players knowing every little detail of a world makes the world seem more real in their imagination, and they are looking for this "real" (among other things off course).
It is about the feeling of being there.

For some, it's not knowing every little detail, it's knowing that the world outside of the character exists separate from the character - that it has workings and consistency regardless of whether the character exists.  Think of it as a bunch of people who appreciate Tolkien not just for the story, per se, but the inner workings that set the stage for the story to take place.

Or I could be completely wrong...

You keep mentioning Universe and I have no idea what you are refering to.

I have a few more questions in a bit.

Quote from: K BergIf I want what Sett describes I'll play EVE. Because it does the work for me.

So you wouldn't be interested in that EVE tabletop RPG which White Wolf is planning to publish?

James, That was what I was trying to say, I blame the language barrier.

The world outside the characters is what I called verisimilar. A world that lives and breathes outside the charactes immideate sphere of influence. Might have been totally wrong word.

I still play that way. I no longer use game mechanic details to give me that feeling, I still try to create a world that lives and breathes outside them. I use color for this.

And it is because I am lazy.

Grim, no I wouldn't.

Quote from: GrimGentSo you wouldn't be interested in that EVE tabletop RPG which White Wolf is planning to publish?

As I play Eve Online, I am very scared.

Quote from: K BergAnd it is because I am lazy.

I don't play this way because I'm lazy.  I do this because I like spending my efforts, in-game efforts, in other areas.

Quote from: PakaI don't play this way because I'm lazy. I do this because I like spending my efforts, in-game efforts, in other areas.

Same same for me

Quote from: SpikeAs I play Eve Online, I am very scared.

Rein-Hagen's never-published Exile could have been the great WW science fiction game. I'm hoping that they at least get this one right.

Exile had some cool ideas, though the free playtest document held promise. And the premise rocked.

If you have it I'd love to see it again.

Mine is gone in the great harddisk swap of 2003

Quote from: K BergIf you have it I'd love to see it again.

Those drafts are still available at a few places around the 'Net. Just look here, for instance.