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Challenge! Is the Pundit brave enough?

Started by Settembrini, November 16, 2006, 08:52:08 AM

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Blackleaf

Quote from: Levi KornelsenLumpley Principle, RPGsite style:

"System is the actual process used at the table to make decisions. Fuck the books. Fuck the advice. What you actually do? That's your system."

Thanks Levi. :)

Why don't they call it the "Actual Process of Play" or something similar?  Then people know what they're talking about.

Continuing to call it the "Lumpley Principle" is, quite frankly, retarded.

Ego getting in the way of practicality..

Abyssal Maw

Amongst other things it has absolutely fuck-all to do with the guy who calls himself Lumpley.
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James McMurray

According to Vincent Baker (i.e. Lumpley) it was named after him because he provoked Edwards into formulating it (http://random.average-bear.com/TheoryTopics/LumpleyPrinciple).

Hmmm... Lumpley Principle... Borgstrom Law... Maybe Pundit and Edwards are the same person. They seem to have the same habit of naming something after someone whose only relationship to it is having been on their minds while the neurons fired.

Levi Kornelsen

Quote from: StuartContinuing to call it the "Lumpley Principle" is, quite frankly, retarded.

I see that you subscribe to the Samuel Jackson Principle.  Which, of course, is:

"English, motherfucker!  Do you speak it?"

:D

RPGPundit

Quote from: James McMurrayAccording to Vincent Baker (i.e. Lumpley) it was named after him because he provoked Edwards into formulating it (http://random.average-bear.com/TheoryTopics/LumpleyPrinciple).

Hmmm... Lumpley Principle... Borgstrom Law... Maybe Pundit and Edwards are the same person. They seem to have the same habit of naming something after someone whose only relationship to it is having been on their minds while the neurons fired.

Mine was both a response to one of Borgstrom's own laws, and a mocking of the idiots who make up these kinds of laws and name them something unintelligible.

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James McMurray

Yes, of course it made perfect sense. It certainly wasn't named after her because she was on your mind when the neurons were firing. :rolleyes:

Sorry dude, you can't distance yourself from Edwards on this one. You both used the same naming scheme for your laws. Ha ha on you, and all that. :)

RPGPundit

Dude, he's got names for things like "The Impossible Thing Before Breakfast" and  "Fortune in the Middle"; I couldn't hold a candle to his ability to think up utterly stupid names for Laws if I tried.

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James McMurray

I'm not declaring equality, just parity. If you don't want to be compared to the guy, don't use his methodology. For example, he doesn't like being compared to you (presumably, who would?) so he (again presumably) doesn't rant about people being fucktards. ;)

By the way, "The Impossible Thing Before Breakfast" was stolen from literature (Alice in Wonderland). I don't know about and so have no idea where Fortune in the Middle came from, mayhap he was having a Pundit morning? I'd be willing to guess though that they make a lot more sense in regards to their topic then "Borgstrom is a Moron." :D

Blackleaf

Impossible Thing Before Breakfast, the
"The GM is the author of the story and the players direct the actions of the protagonists." Widely repeated across many role-playing texts. Neither sub-clause in the sentence is possible in the presence of the other. See Narrativism: Story Now.

Wow.  That is really stupid.

RPGPundit

Quote from: James McMurrayI'm not declaring equality, just parity. If you don't want to be compared to the guy, don't use his methodology. For example, he doesn't like being compared to you (presumably, who would?) so he (again presumably) doesn't rant about people being fucktards. ;)

No, just brain damaged.

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RPGPundit

Quote from: StuartImpossible Thing Before Breakfast, the
"The GM is the author of the story and the players direct the actions of the protagonists." Widely repeated across many role-playing texts. Neither sub-clause in the sentence is possible in the presence of the other. See Narrativism: Story Now.

Wow.  That is really stupid.

Yes, yes it is.

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James McMurray

Well, if he calls you brain damaged he won't get much complaint from me.

And besides, it's just his "swine" right? So yet another way you two are alike.

Warthur

Quote from: StuartImpossible Thing Before Breakfast, the
"The GM is the author of the story and the players direct the actions of the protagonists." Widely repeated across many role-playing texts. Neither sub-clause in the sentence is possible in the presence of the other. See Narrativism: Story Now.

Wow.  That is really stupid.
It can make sense if you work hard to interpret what Ron is actually saying there. And add some words.

If the players control the actions of their PCs, and we assume that the PCs are the protagonists of the game (not unfair, since they are the characters we spend the most time with), then the GM is not the sole author of the story - the players are choosing what the major viewpoint characters of the story are going to be doing, which is a pretty damn major component of the story. (If you define "story" as "the sequence of events that gets played out over the course of an RPG".)

At the same time, if the GM is the sole author of the story, then the players do not have absolute control over their player characters - if the players can't choose to ignore the GM's story, then the PCs can't meaningfully do anything aside from follow the railroad.

If Edwards put the word "sole" between "the" and "author", and if he substituted "PCs" for "protagonists", and used the definition I use here for story, then the Impossible Thing is, indeed, impossible. It's also not something which many RPGs actually claim.

This is another case of Ron Edwards not enjoying Vampire and getting upset about it.
I am no longer posting here or reading this forum because Pundit has regularly claimed credit for keeping this community active. I am sick of his bullshit for reasons I explain here and I don\'t want to contribute to anything he considers to be a personal success on his part.

I recommend The RPG Pub as a friendly place where RPGs can be discussed and where the guiding principles of moderation are "be kind to each other" and "no politics". It\'s pretty chill so far.

James McMurray

Waitaminnut. Edwards and Pundit also both hate Vampire?

Is there anything these two don't have in common?

Spike

Quote from: WarthurIt can make sense if you work hard to interpret what Ron is actually saying there. And add some words.
.


The worst every savaging Ron's essays ever got... at least that I have seen came from someone going line by line and working hard to interpret what was being said and adding the right words.  

THAT is the big problem with Edwards, his deliberately obscure writing technique is a fig leaf covering a scarcity of real ideas.
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