I've run into a bit of a brick wall with one of my games. Primarily because the initial concept was sillier than intended and I'm trying to reign in it.

Originally E.O.N (Empire of Night) was supposed to be dark Star Wars, with bad guys you could kill without regret--zombies and vampires. I've even got initial art for that paid for that I really like. I've got more coming at some point.

The more I think on it the more I want to do something, darker. A space-horror game. Is there a way to make zombies and vampires terrible monsters within their folklore in a sci fi game? Especially without running into Buck Rogers "Alien Vampire" or NEcroscopes "alien mutant leeches?" I'm wanting to keep the vampires, and the zombies and do a dark gothic horror game in space. Yet I'm not sure how to do it, so I come here for your help on brainstorming.

Part of the significant problem is I don't want to blame Science for the fall of man, like so many WW games. Despite my dislike of people who make science into a religion, I can't blame the science for that. I also want to keep faith as a possible defense against monsters. Rare but valuable in a space travel age.

What I want: A blasphemous empire of twisted things, dead and living, mechanical monstrosities of dead and living flesh melded together for abominable acts. Blood drinking corpses who are not pretty glittery boys, but true monsters who will rip someone's throat out to satiate their thirst. Black ships that are almost hell warped cathedrals to sin and corruption. Earth as a toxic, blood spattered, orb, remembered for the heroes it spawned, and homeworld lost to evil--for heroes to one day reclaim. Weapons that rend and tear and howl. Chain pikes, burning swords, lasers dim lights burning across a black battlefield and, human threshers with chain-saw katars who give into madness to fight, knowing they will die if they stop. Whispering psychics who wake up screaming because the voices and images of what seems hell itself won't let them sleep.


How do I get the latter, and keep science AND faith? How do I create something worth playing yet dark. I'm heavily inspired by Mutant Chronicles, which I don't feel was dark enough, and the imagery of Warhammer 40K but not their fluff otherwise.

How do I take our terrible folklore, and fashion something that would still be scary 800 years from now?

All I can do right now is ask for someone to throw me a seed or two they don't mind, and let it ferment. I'm not doing any game work, beyond brainstormign for November because I'm doing a self-paced NANOWRIMO thing to get one of my novels done.

Take Warhammer 40k and crank up the gamma correction on the Imperial side.

Undying Emperor becomes Enlightened Pope.
Vicious Space Marines become heroic Space Paladins (or whatever).
You can keep the bad guys the same, except use the Necrons instead of Orcs.
File off a lot of serial numbers, of course.

Et voila.

Blood Games II + StarCluster. Make up the setting.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;341400Blood Games II + StarCluster. Make up the setting.

-clash

Sure, that's fine for YOU. I want to do something I've got rattling in my head but not quite sure how to focus it into coherence.

Horror tends to be one of two things:

A) The unknown.
B) The unkillable.
C) Something that wants only to kill you.
D) The disgusting.

Different people react differently to those.

Something like 'Blair Witch Project', which is based on fear of the unknown, can leave some people shivering in fear and others yawning. So, let's tag 'Blair Witch Project' as an example of A and C. The campers are hunted by something that's never directly seen and that picks them off one by one.

Werewolves are a good example of B and C. Generally, you need silver to kill them for good, but otherwise - If you've got a werewolf in the scene, someone - Generally, several someones - Are going to die messily and brutally.
Werewolves are rarely A) as it's difficult to show a brutally rampaging monster without actually showing said monster brutally rampaging.

Jason Voorhees is an example of C, B and some A - He kills, a lot, he's unkillable - Although he can be slowed down - And no-one really knows what he is.

I don't include D) in the list, because it's a 'wear-out' button - It's been pushed far too much and even I, who watches very little horror, rarely react to it any more. Especially since, as we all know, ugly != evil.

Horror, then, is hitting the right buttons. Problems:

A) The average college student knows, understands and accepts as scientific facts that would be ridiculed or seen as horror fifty to a hundred years ago. Quantum physics alone removes many 'supernatural phenomena' to the realm of 'technologically possible', such as teleportation, FTL and alternate universes. Also, cyborgs, genetic engineering, regeneration, 'brain in a bottle' - No longer seen as that horrifying, because they are no longer really 'the unknown'. Plus, we can all see ways for them to be useful, normal and, well, not really horrifying.

B) In games, this tends to come down finding ways to kill it. However, it does have potential, especially if not overplayed. Orks in W40K, AFAIK, have this to an extent - They're fungus, so whereever you kill them, more orks will eventually grow.
The Terminator is another example of this, to an extent. They're killable, but even if you manage that, they'll likely still have found a way to complete their mission.

C) This has been very worn-down by video games. The average gamer has mown down thousands of enemies gunning for their death. Nevertheless, it remains a standard because it can work.

Overall, your task is to hit those buttons without wearing them out. Honestly, W40K uniforms are starting to hit a 'giggle' reflex, rather than a horror reflex, because they're so overblown.

Taking the familar and making it unfamilar can also work, but can be hard to hit.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;341414Overall, your task is to hit those buttons without wearing them out. Honestly, W40K uniforms are starting to hit a 'giggle' reflex, rather than a horror reflex, because they're so overblown.

Taking the familar and making it unfamilar can also work, but can be hard to hit.

Good stuff Narf. I think the problem is that traditional horror has overplayed a lot of the tropes. I might be able to twist the familiar up. I was lookign a bit towards WW1 than WW2 for looks, because long coats and gasmasks can be spooky.  I just need to see what percolates out.

Quote from: Silverlion;341412Sure, that's fine for YOU. I want to do something I've got rattling in my head but not quite sure how to focus it into coherence.

Buddy - look at how Blood Games II uses faith. IT'S BEDROCK. The vampires? They are tough, nasty, and amoral at best. Look how I set it all up and do it like that for your game. I mean you could use BG if you wanted, but I suspect you'd rather come up with your own thing. But pull BG apart for inspiration. It's absolutely perfect for the flavor you want.

-clash

I would be very intrigued if you manage to pull of the 'science + faith' angle.  Usually when a sci-fi game cranks up the science, they turn down the faith (including 40K - a pervasive 'religion' that's essentially propaganda is not the same as highlighting the power of real faith in a setting).

If you can massage the setting in a way that actually makes science and faith into partners rather than rivals, then I'll be your fan for life.

I'd actually avoid over-Catholicising it, however you do it.  I'm not saying throw all that awesome imagery out the window, but I suspect there's more to 'faith' to be explored than just starships that look like cathedrals and space nuns.

Might pay for you to dig up Bailywolf's "Counting to Infinity" thread on RPG.net and read some Vernor Vinge -- "Fire Upon the Deep" and "Deepness in the Sky". You can get plenty of horror from hegemonic super-intelligences (warware of a faded culture?) that dominate human civilizations by subverting technology and extending their own minds by co-opting those of living beings. They explode through the galaxy as fast as they can reproduce themselves until they finally reach a critical computational threshold and collapse having completed their essential calculations, leaving a husk of dead civilizations and lobotomized beings behind over thousands of light-years of space. A ship that escapes, breaking communication from the hegemony might have a terrifying tale to tell. And maybe a surprise in the databanks.

That beacon? That could be an SOS. Could be....

If you want faith to be powerful, make God physically real in the game setting.  Or some "divine spark" that truly can be observed and brought forth by the righteous.

Quote from: Spinachcat;341553If you want faith to be powerful, make God physically real in the game setting.  Or some "divine spark" that truly can be observed and brought forth by the righteous.

Doesn't proof of god actually devalue faith?

Quote from: Halfjack;341632Doesn't proof of god actually devalue faith?

Exactly. Faith is not faith when it is knowledge.

you might want to check out the Triune Quick start at Happy Bishop Games for faith being important in SF. I read the game last night. You could get some neat ideas there as well.

-clash

Quote from: Halfjack;341632Doesn't proof of god actually devalue faith?

You can make faith important, and still leave it to question. After all just because someone is able to hold back the dead--might mean they faith--belief, gives them the power. Without saying God absolutely exists (of any stripe) absolutely exists. In my fantasy game its a different thing, its important to most for him to be real. In this? I'll leave the reality ambiguous as it makes for more questions to ask.

Quote from: Silverlion;341643You can make faith important, and still leave it to question. After all just because someone is able to hold back the dead--might mean they faith--belief, gives them the power. Without saying God absolutely exists (of any stripe) absolutely exists. In my fantasy game its a different thing, its important to most for him to be real. In this? I'll leave the reality ambiguous as it makes for more questions to ask.

Could you make the devil real? If you have a real devil that can convert being from 'human' to vampire or waith or whatever. That might give you an origin story for the bad guys and a Supreme Leader for them. Then from the faith perspective you have a strong indication that there is a god, I mean there is a devil, but some will speculate that the Devil is really an alien or whatever so you can have a holy war with no need for a Manifest Diety.

Knowing is better than believing. Faith->Knowledge, Biblically.