Quote from: obrynYou know, looking at this, it could be a distillation of either RPGPundit or Ron Edwards.

Funny how that works, ain't it?

-O

RPGPundit is no hero in my eyes. Shouldn't that be clear by now?

He is however a much lesser evil at this time.

The problem here is that there is a strong element of "groupthink" in the Forge. I used to be somewhat active there. But, eventually, I saw that the Forge wasn't going to support the kind of games I dig.
The difference between this site and the Forge is the difference between the PTA and MADD. One is a voluntary association based on a mutual hobby/interest, the other has a hardline agenda towards the outside world.
-Zam

Quote from: gleichmanRPGPundit is no hero in my eyes. Shouldn't that be clear by now?

He is however a much lesser evil at this time.

I wasn't accusing you of anything.  Just pointing out subtle ironies that you very well may have been aware of.

-O

Quote from: obrynYou know, looking at this, it could be a distillation of either RPGPundit or Ron Edwards.

Funny how that works, ain't it?

-O

It actually fits into something that floated through my head as I was going to sleep...

RPGPundit strikes me as what we'd have if Ron Edwards had BEEN the GM and had fun with it, rather than being badly treated by one. A dyed-in-the-wool, vitriolic hardliner who believes other playstyles are the mental equivalent of a mercury enema.

Sometimes it's all in the circumstances.

Quote from: TonyLBAt DexCon I explicitly recruited a friend (Shawn) and sought out a guy who was making such a game.  I demanded that he run us his convention-scenario, because he had mentioned in conversation that it needed work.  We ran for four hours, and we then spent two hours seriously talking, recommending tweaks and different ways of presenting things, and also chatting about the fundamentals of his system and whether they were doing what he wanted.

I honestly don't know whether that "counts" in this context.  Is the question whether folks in the Forge community individually help out games designed by entirely different methods (they do, see above) or is the question whether they use the Forge's posting system as the medium for doing that?

I was thinking about the board, the wider Forge diaspora is I think a lot more helpful to a wider range of designs than the Forge itself.

I don't think the Forge is helpful toward other than a fairly narrow category of game, individual Forge posters however vary hugely.

Hell, Marco posts on the Forge and I don't think he's one of the hippy commie indie types.

I can easily imagine a wide range of Forge posters being helpful to a wide range of games, but I think the support the Forge itself provides as a forum is provided only to a fairly narrow set of games.

The difference between me and some others here is that I'm fine with that.

Quote from: Christmas ApeRPGPundit strikes me as what we'd have if Ron Edwards had BEEN the GM and had fun with it, rather than being badly treated by one. A dyed-in-the-wool, vitriolic hardliner who believes other playstyles are the mental equivalent of a mercury enema.

Quite possible, but I can't completely agree.

The interesting thing about the whole brain-damage posts is that Ron admits his whole design angle is nothing but cutches for avoiding whatever it was that was done to him at the gaming table. Here's a person driven by his personal demons- he would in complete truth be nothing if he wasn't damaged goods at the start.

If not for those demons, he'd likely be a normal and rather unnoticed player somewhere.

This of course brings up the question of what drives RPGPundit...

Quote from: gleichmanQuite possible, but I can't completely agree.

The interesting thing about the whole brain-damage posts is that Ron admits his whole design angle is nothing but cutches for avoiding whatever it was that was done to him at the gaming table.

I'd like to audit this post. Can you quote me some posts where Ron says this?

QuoteHere's a person driven by his personal demons-

Who isn't?

Luke, Ron's whole motivation for theorizing pretty much is a reaction to his being badly emotionally mauled in what may have been the world's shittiest Vampire game sometime in the 90s and he alludes to it in both posts mentioned above.

Quote from: emphasis mineMore specific to your question, Vincent, I'll say this: that protagonism was so badly injured during the history of role-playing (1970-ish through the present, with the height of the effect being the early 1990s), that participants in that hobby are perhaps the very last people on earth who could be expected to produce *all* the components of a functional story. No, the most functional among them can only be counted on to seize protagonism in their stump-fingered hands and scream protectively. You can tag Sorcerer with this diagnosis, instantly

Quote from: From the less (in)famous 'missing limb' analogy"Wrong" ... what do I mean? Wrong in the sense that a person missing limbs, using old-school prosthetics, must whip their head about and lurch down the street, rather than using a modern prosthetic which (a) doesn't resemble a limb in the slightest but (b) permits them to walk without damaging the rest of their body or forcing constant disorientation. Note, I'm not privileging viewer comfort as the point, but rather the person's health and function as the point.
If you say "creative social interaction" instead of "walking," in that paragraph, then that's what early-to-mid 1990s role-playing procedures concerning so-called "storytelling" were like - Vampire leading the pack, as well as a number of other offspring of a particular application of Champions. You've seen these role-playing experiences too, Jesse. You know all about the social and creative equivalents.

This wasn't a personal demon, man, this game must have been full on Hell on Earth.  :devil:

Quote from: lukeI'd like to audit this post. Can you quote me some posts where Ron says this?

He of course wouldn't directly say anything (unless I've missed something, I've been out of touch for 2 or 3 years you know).

However in the first link I provided he does state this:

"No, the most functional among them can only be counted on to seize protagonism in their stump-fingered hands and scream protectively. You can tag Sorcerer with this diagnosis, instantly"

And later:

"Perhaps Primetime Adventures, My Life with Master, Dogs in the Vineyard, Polaris, etc etc, are really the best available prosthetics possible, permitting the damaged populace to do X? If so, what will people with limbs prefer to use, to do X?

I don't know."

Bolding mine.

To me, this basically means that Forge style games including his own designs are meant for people who have been "damaged" but who want to function even so. The fact that he seemly has no clue as to what a game for an undamaged person would be like (hint Ron- try D20 or Age or Heroes with a good GM, sorry- couldn't resist) indicates that he at some level includes himself in with the damaged.

I believe there were other posts of his speaking about his horrid gaming experiences on the Forge, but for me those were read years ago and I don't have them at my fingertips at the moment. I could even be mistaking Clinton for him but I think it unlikely.

Quote from: lukeWho isn't?

It is human to have problems and failings. However it takes a rare person to lower themselves to the level of comparing game designers to rapists (to use John Wicks words).

Quote from: gleichmanThe interesting thing about the whole brain-damage posts is that Ron admits his whole design angle is nothing but cutches for avoiding whatever it was that was done to him at the gaming table. Here's a person driven by his personal demons- he would in complete truth be nothing if he wasn't damaged goods at the start.

So, if he had been raped by pirates, do you think he would have become obsessed about about high level old school D&D and global warming?

(yea I know most of you won't get the reference but I don't care.)

Quote from: NicephorusSo, if he had been raped by pirates, do you think he would have become obsessed about about high level old school D&D and global warming?

(yea I know most of you won't get the reference but I don't care.)

As I don't get the reference, there's nothing there for me to reply to.

Which was likely the point of your post.

Quote from: gleichmanAs I don't get the reference, there's nothing there for me to reply to.

Which was likely the point of your post.

Try saying "Edena" three times and you'll see for yourself.

-O

Quote from: obrynTry saying "Edena" three times and you'll see for yourself.

-O

Invoking the name of a part of Buenos Aires three times brings wisdom?

Oh, I get it. Google is your friend. I guess I just never travel much in the D&D areas of the web.

Quote from: gleichmanInvoking the name of a part of Buenos Aires three times brings wisdom?

Oh, I get it. Google is your friend. I guess I just never travel much in the D&D areas of the web.

Nope, it's dark there.  And full of wolves.

-O

Quote from: VellorianHim: So, our world will be X, Y and Z.
RE: You won't define exactly what a player must do in the world?
Him: Oh, no!  We want players to explore and define and create!
RE: What about your mechanic?
Him: [Describes it]
RE: So, your mechanic does not embody the world itself, it's just a generic resolution system?
Him: I suppose you could call it that.
RE: Interesting  [walks away]

Several years later and Ron still doesn't understand the goals of Simulationism (GDS sense, since I don't even know what GNS Sim means these days).