Just noticed in Artesia, the term for a target number is the phrase "Difficulty Rating". Is this something that originated with 3e?

YMMV but I find it jarring because it could be expressed much more simply ("target number") and because I'm used to seeing the abbreviation "DR" for damage resistance in other games.

I haven't done a survey of English usage but for me the term "rating" implies qualitative categorization or at most ordinal valuation (bad, fair, good, better, best) rather than as a direct numeric input.

Less subjectively, I think that common jargon is often a flag of conceptual influence. I have no idea if Artesia should be seen as inspired by 3e or a reaction to it--in fact the system is supposed to be Fuzion--but I wouldn't be surprised if the author had 3e on his mind. (Note that in the original Fuzion rules, the term is "Difficulty Value".)

Wait, is my premise valid? Or does 3e use "difficulty class"?

If so--I still think "class" is as bad as "rating" when you're referring to a target number.

Maybe we should just use the word "level" for everything. No way that could cause any confusion.

Well before 3E, Star Wars D6 (1987, 1992, 1996) used "Difficulty" to describe the target range or target number.

Yeah, I wasn't referring to "Difficulty", but to "Rating" or "Class".

Honestly if they'd just left it as "difficulty" it would seem more natural.

I think 3e used Difficulty Class simply because it was based around the same premise as AC - Armor Class

My own biggest issue with "Creeping D&Dism" (I love that phrase by the way) is the fact that the D20 system is becoming so common. I HATE having different games using the same system. I think a game's system should be built for and tailored specifically to that game's setting and intended style of play. Having so many different games, settings and genres using the same system is quite depressing and disappointing. My gaming group has actually started actively avoiding games that use the D20 system, because everything was becoming so bloody boring and samey and unoriginal.

Quote from: JeremyR;901328I think 3e used Difficulty Class simply because it was based around the same premise as AC - Armor Class

Good call. Armor class flies under my radar because I'm used to it. Also, when I learned D&D, AC really was a "class"--you didn't input it directly, you cross-referenced it on a table.

Quote from: EidolonRPG;901373My own biggest issue with "Creeping D&Dism" (I love that phrase by the way) is the fact that the D20 system is becoming so common. I HATE having different games using the same system.

I appreciate the concern but my focus here is more on cases where you can tell, often by language alone, that a notionally new & different game is still operating under the same paradigm. I had a similar thread about the proliferation of Feat mechanics.

Not sure if it's been done, but it would also be interesting to look at games whose popularity has been such that they not only influenced subsequent designs but produced a generation of player-designers who seemingly weren't aware of anything else. 0e-2e D&D used to be like this. Nowadays I think if someone is basing their game on one of those it's more likely to be a considered choice than if someone is using 3e.

WoD may be another candidate, where a number of design choices were taken up wholesale--like dice pools *plus* psychological/emotional/thematic attributes *plus* bad game fiction *plus* metaplot. Just a guess, though--I don't know WW stuff well at all.

The whole Difficulty (blank) nomenclature predates 3rd Edition by at least a decade and probably more.

Torg, the original World of Darkness games, Earthdawn, and a bunch of other games used "Difficulty Number", for example.

Marvel SAGA used "Difficulty Rating".

Fudge used "Difficulty Level".

There are almost certainly other examples, but I'm not going to do a deep dig for them.

I suspect "Difficulty Class" was a new term for 3E, adapting itself from Armor Class.

Yeah, as I said to Bren, it's not the "Difficulty" part of the phrase but the use of "Rating" or "Class".

However, my premise that DR comes from 3e was mistaken.

Quote from: EidolonRPG;901373My own biggest issue with "Creeping D&Dism" (I love that phrase by the way) is the fact that the D20 system is becoming so common. I HATE having different games using the same system. I think a game's system should be built for and tailored specifically to that game's setting and intended style of play. Having so many different games, settings and genres using the same system is quite depressing and disappointing. My gaming group has actually started actively avoiding games that use the D20 system, because everything was becoming so bloody boring and samey and unoriginal.

It balances out. I think I definitely have mechanics fatigue, learning new mechanics is tedious. I don't like D&D and d20's anymore either, I don't know why, maybe it is just everything is too complex.