Quote from: Cranewings;511592It is FUN to know that what matters is your choices and RP, rather than if you going to random drown, crash your ship, fall off you horse or whatever else. When you have a very strong character, like in the game you are writing, I think it kills immersion to fail on anything less than epic contested rolls.

You should try this.

I'm tired of this constant whining bullshit.

Nobody's talking about drowning, crashing your ship or fallling off your horse if you fail a roll here. The possibility of failure actually increases your choices by prompting you to adjust to new situations, with proper GMing and a proper attitude as a player of the game, as demonstrated in the example above.

Not to mention, you don't like very strong characters yourself, do you? You cut off the upper half of the Pathfinder rules because you can't deal with high level characters, can't bother to learn how to deal with them. You refuse to learn how to GM properly to keep yourself from fixing the rules instead, and in the meantime, you can't shut the fuck up about Wizards "breaking the game" for reasons having everything to do with you and your GMing style, and nothing whatsoever to do with the full game you've never actually understood.

All these extremely bad and boooring things you see happening in case anybody fails at anything are in your head, mate. You should wake up and smell the coffee. You might actually pick up something of interest, instead of sticking to your guns like a stubborn imbecile not hearing what he wants to hear.

Benoist, you know I don't read your posts that start off like that? Jesus fucking Christ.

GMs doing hard work as they GM?

Prefuckingposterous! World is coming to an end!!!1

Quote from: Benoist;511532That would suck to me. I wouldn't play that game.

Failure on a skill roll that stalls the game is the result of bad play and/or bad GMing.

I'd distinct between stalling the game, and stalling the action. Sometimes the consequences of failure are, that action becomes temporary stalled - but having to deal with it, is cool in itself. Stalling the game, imo, is equal to game becoming tedious and boring - and that's indeed bad.

If you have a strong & epic character - just don't roll for tedious stuff, and only roll for epics. Whoah, I know.

As for crashing the ship - Yeah, I burned your fucking barge. Deal with it.

Quote from: Cranewings;511607Benoist, you know I don't read your posts that start off like that? Jesus fucking Christ.

That's one part of your problem right there.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;511463I am wondering if my system should work thus:

If a player fails at a roll for an action the player still succeeds, but less effectively and with some element of misfortune. A sting in the tail.

As opposed to the player fails the roll and things...stall.

Or is that too easy?

I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but a similar discussion occurred over on this thread, starting at post #64.

What does "old school" mean to you?

EDIT: My general feeling on the question is what I summed up here (revised from post #112):

There's always the option of trying something else, but I think play at the table is more interesting if dice rolls generally mean the player is making a gamble, i.e. putting something at risk. If you succeed, you will get what you want but if you fail, things will be worse or more complicated. Despite what Ben says, I think his lockpick example does use this principle. Not only is the lock not picked, but now monsters might be aware of your presence. So, in the case of persuading a king, failure that means you've actually offended the king, or tipped off an enemy to your plans, or whatever in addition to the simple fact of failure. A failure that results in a twist or complication is more interesting than a simple failure that says, "No, that doesn't work."

Quote from: Benoist;511620That's one part of your problem right there.

I love coming to a forum where I'm getting trolled by a mod. Why don't you block me so I don't have to read your posts.

Quote from: Cranewings;511628I love coming to a forum where I'm getting trolled by a mod. Why don't you block me so I don't have to read your posts.

I love coming to a forum and have to read the same guy bitching about Wizards over and over and over and over again.
I swear. That's why I don't block you...

Wait a minute.

Are you fucking kidding me? Grow a fucking spine.

Benoist is certainly acting like an asshole (sorry Beno, I know it's tough love, but I prefer more love, less tough), but he has a point, Cranewings. Open your mind to alternatives, rather then continue committing the same mistakes.

Quote from: Benoist;511631I love coming to a forum and have to read the same guy bitching about Wizards over and over and over and over again.
I swear. That's why I don't block you...

Wait a minute.

Are you fucking kidding me? Grow a fucking spine.

Suck a fucking dick.

I know I'm being harsh. I just can't stand the moronic rambling over and over and over again. For fuck's sakes. Enough! Cranewings doesn't even want to admit to anything at this point. He's so stuck on his position it's mindboggling. So I don't answer. Most of the time. I just bite my virtual tongue and move on. But then, on this thread, misrepresenting what I just said by pulling a total strawman about how failure is about taking people off their horses and crashing their spaceships?

GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK.

You don't want me to answer? Don't you fucking misrepresent what I say.

Quote from: Rincewind1;511632Benoist is certainly acting like an asshole (sorry Beno, I know it's tough love, but I prefer more love, less tough), but he has a point, Cranewings. Open your mind to alternatives, rather then continue committing the same mistakes.

Benoist said I don't like powerful characters because I have a level limit. In my level limit games, 6th level characters alter the course of battle because each one can kill 12 to 20 armed and trained men, sometimes in a few seconds. That's plenty powerful. Benoist is a cunt because Benoist believes his tastes have intrinsic value beyond being his tastes and he apparently thinks he isn't a broken record on every topic himself.

Quote from: Benoist;511634I know I'm being harsh. I just can't stand the moronic rambling over and over and over again. For fuck's sakes. Enough! Cranewings doesn't even want to admit to anything at this point. He's so stuck on his position it's mindboggling. So I don't answer. Most of the time. I just bite my virtual tongue and move on. But then, on this thread, misrepresenting what I just said by pulling a total strawman about how failure is about taking people off their horses and crashing their spaceships?

GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK.

You don't want me to answer? Don't you fucking misrepresent what I say.

I wasn't talking to you or really even about you, because I usually skim your post at best. I was encouraging Ghost to try his idea instead of listening to naysayers.

I said you don't like powerful characters because you don't admit them. Why? Because you don't want to deal with them. I said you are not understanding the game. Why? Because you keep bitching at wizards because they blast through your encounters, I tell you that you should use variety in your encounters and set up the game in such a way as to provide an actual challenge to your wizards, and then you whine that you shouldn't have to do that. And then, you keep on bitching about wizards over and over and over again.

That's what I have enough of. That's this total stuck-up stubborn bullshit that makes you systematically discard why it is that these things happen in your games to then keep on blaming the game for your GMing failings. That pisses me off, because it's representative of a fucked up mindset that's been cancerous in 3rd edition and beyond. Blame the rules for your own failings. Fail to understand the game. "But I shouldn't need to", "it's boring", "I am entitled." Fuck that noise, man.

Quote from: Benoist;511634I know I'm being harsh. I just can't stand the moronic rambling over and over and over again. For fuck's sakes. Enough! Cranewings doesn't even want to admit to anything at this point. He's so stuck on his position it's mindboggling. So I don't answer. Most of the time. I just bite my virtual tongue and move on. But then, on this thread, misrepresenting what I just said by pulling a total strawman about how failure is about taking people off their horses and crashing their spaceships?

GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK.

You don't want me to answer? Don't you fucking misrepresent what I say.

Quote from: Benoist;511637I said you don't like powerful characters because you don't admit them. Why? Because you don't want to deal with them. I said you are not understanding the game. Why? Because you keep bitching at wizards because they blast through your encounters, I tell you that you should use variety in your encounters and set up the game in such a way as to provide an actual challenge to your wizards, and then you whine that you shouldn't have to do that. And then, you keep on bitching about wizards over and over and over again.

That's what I have enough of. That's this total stuck-up stubborn bullshit that makes you systematically discard why it is that these things happen in your games to then keep on blaming the game for your GMing failings. That pisses me off, because it's representative of a fucked up mindset that's been cancerous in 3rd edition and beyond. Blame the rules for your own failings. Fail to understand the game. "But I shouldn't need to", "it's boring", "I am entitled." Fuck that noise, man.

Benoist, you ignorant cunt, either block me so I can't read your posts or I'm deleating my account.

For the love of dynamite

Cranewings: Stop the emotional blackmail.

Benoist: Stop being so aggressive.

Kiss & make up, or STFU both of you, as I'd rather criticize Ghost's concept rather see this screaming match.




What you described, Ghost, is basically another "story/narration - based resolution", focused around an idea that Failure is Bad. While failure, in fact, is good. It helps remind the players that their characters aren't omnipotent forces of the universe. It's humiliating, but also humanising.