Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;566755I like degrees of success for some things. It may be that its something that's considered on a case-by-case basis; some skills or situations will benefit from a high roll (such as a good hit roll increasing damage?), others won't.
Opposed rolls are a useful mechanic as well, though passive defenses are probably a good idea for combat (and a couple of other cases like Perception). Perhaps have a default passive defense that's fairly low i.e. gives better than a 50/50 chance of an attacker of the same skill hitting, but also give the option of spending an action to make an 'active defense' (opposed roll to parry or dodge) if the defender wants ?
I think whether skills can be used untrained will vary from skill to skill. As an aside I don't think 'Jump' should be a skill - perhaps just a function of Strength.
 
On APNs task difficulties table note that APN was assuming an average human attribute was 2 (so by default a normal character would get a +2 bonus). What scale to go for is a good question I think - a 2 average maybe doesn't leave much room for representing low attributes (e.g. small creatures with low Strength, or animal-Int creatures) unless creatures can have negative stats...
The original idea of a 1-10 scale (Cyberpunk) does look like it might be a bit too extreme, unless using modifiers rather than adding the score to the roll directly which is a bit cumbersome.

I assumed a stat mod of -5 to +5 with 1 as the SD from a median of 0

I assumed a skill mod of 0 - +5

Quote from: jibbajibba;566749by degrees of sucess I was being unclear me bad. I meant what % sucess do we want for the different difficultly slots. 50% sucess for easy? etc

I agree with the rest.

Combat wise I like a defense score that becomes a target number cuts down on multiple roles.

Optional Hit locations ? Wound system with a death spiral? Armour absorbs?

I think I am still unclear on what you mean by degrees of success; do you mean how challenging in terms of probability each TN level would be? In my opinion something that is labeled Easy should have an 80 percent chance of success or more. Definitely shouldn't be failing easy tasks half the time in my opinion.

Defense scores work for me.

I don't think hit locations are good for a rules light game. I am fine with wounds and death spiral. We could also just do a really low hp total that doesn't advance over time (something around 10).

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;566762I think I am still unclear on what you mean by degrees of success; do you mean how challenging in terms of probability each TN level would be? In my opinion something that is labeled Easy should have an 80 percent chance of success or more. Definitely shouldn't be failing easy tasks half the time in my opinion.

Defense scores work for me.

I don't think hit locations are good for a rules light game. I am fine with wounds and death spiral. We could also just do a really low hp total that doesn't advance over time (something around 10).

Yes I mean how challenging eg -

So Easy = 75% Moderate = 50%   difficult = 25%  Very hard = 0% (based on an average of stat + bonus)

Quote from: jibbajibba;566775Yes I mean how challenging eg -

So Easy = 75% Moderate = 50%   difficult = 25%  Very hard = 0% (based on an average of stat + bonus)

I think we are in the same area but Inconsider fif percent rate of failure hard, so I would probably lean on  100% routine, 80 (maybe even 85%) easy, 65% moderate, 50% difficult, 25% very difficult, 15% overwhelming, 5% darn near impossible, 0% impossible.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;566757I like hit locations. On damage - in an SF game, I guess the bad guys are probably going to packing really nasty weapons that you'd expect to vapourize an unarmoured target, or at least really mess them up. Maybe armour absorbs from damage, or even armour having its own built-in Hit Points (a la Rifts) probably wouldn't be unreasonable.

Hit locations can work but I do think we need a much simpler and more intuitive method for it if the goal is rules light. When I think hit location, i think crunch.

Edit: how much control do you want pcs to have when they target? What kind of mechanical effect do you want from hitting someone in the head versus the legs or the torso?

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;566804I think we are in the same area but Inconsider fif percent rate of failure hard, so I would probably lean on  100% routine, 80 (maybe even 85%) easy, 65% moderate, 50% difficult, 25% very difficult, 15% overwhelming, 5% darn near impossible, 0% impossible.

rember modifiers might get quite bit if you have a possibel +10 then what seems Very hard becomes no need to roll at the top end.

Say if typically we are looking at +5 total for a typical high end skill + stat kind of the PCs specialism. In that case an impossible 11 becomes 50% success. I have no issue with unskilled no talent guys not being able to complete very diffcult tasks. so set that at TN = 10

Quote from: jibbajibba;566816Say if typically we are looking at +5 total for a typical high end skill + stat kind of the PCs specialism. In that case an impossible 11 becomes 50% success. I have no issue with unskilled no talent guys not being able to complete very diffcult tasks. so set that at TN = 10

sure but the probabilities we are talking about are relative to talent and skill. We were just discussing probabilities in the abstract without settling on a base. I think its easiest to speak in terms of the average character.

I have no issue with something that is described as impossible for an unskilled guy being a fifty percent chance of success for a skilled and talented guy.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;566809Hit locations can work but I do think we need a much simpler and more intuitive method for it if the goal is rules light. When I think hit location, i think crunch.

Edit: how much control do you want pcs to have when they target? What kind of mechanical effect do you want from hitting someone in the head versus the legs or the torso?

D10 for Hit locations body block appears on the characters sheet with space to apply armour.

roll the D10 with the shot.

Head > L arm > R Arm > L Chest > R Chest > L Abdomin > R Abdomin > Groin > L Leg > R Leg

If you want extra complexity you have a separate socre for melee where you add upper and lower legs and have 1 chest and 1 abdomin

I agree we dont; want to track HP in different locations or record effect of a wound in the leg/ wound in the arm etc but .... we can have the effect of final wound to certain locations and it enables us to use piecemeal armour and tie armour back to the genetic splice and have abominations with natural armout on certain locations.

But again we start to toss around specifics So now we need some structure.

I will write a setting tonight when I get home. Its goign to be rough and feel free to tear it apart

Once we have that we need to set individuals areas to look at.
They should go away and bring back a page on their topic. At this point it all has to be stawman so we can't get too precious but we need a framework of ideas before we move forward to detail.

i) Character gen
ii) Combat
iii) Skills

stick up any setting ideas and I will incorporate them into the backstory

In terms of concrete levels of difficulty, 1-20. 1 is anything so routine no one would need to roll. 20 is nearly impossible. I would actually want to do some number crunching before settling on a label for the middle zones. But for me the important thing is those probabilities i mentioned earlier line up. So that an average character has something like an 80 percent chance of success for whatever we identify as Easy. i think it is alsi very important to call out those key break points for the GM so he knows once you "go to eleven" that is when things become impossible for the unskilled and unalented.

Quote from: jibbajibba;566827D10 for Hit locations body block appears on the characters sheet with space to apply armour.

roll the D10 with the shot.

Head > L arm > R Arm > L Chest > R Chest > L Abdomin > R Abdomin > Groin > L Leg > R Leg

If you want extra complexity you have a separate socre for melee where you add upper and lower legs and have 1 chest and 1 abdomin

I think that is fine but I it doesn't feel rules light to me. Maybe something simpler: d10: 1-4 appendages, 5-9 torso, 10 head. It is easy to keep three things in your head at a time and after a few uses you wouldn't need to consult the chart for it. The downside is you dont get specifics like left armor getting blown away. Mind you I am open to more robust hit location but I think by that point the game really becomes more of a rules medium system.

Quote from: jibbajibba;566827Once we have that we need to set individuals areas to look at.
They should go away and bring back a page on their topic. At this point it all has to be stawman so we can't get too precious but we need a framework of ideas before we move forward to detail.

i) Character gen
ii) Combat
iii) Skills

stick up any setting ideas and I will incorporate them into the backstory

Right now I have too many projects to engage in any writing on this one (unless it becomes clear this will be something we actually intend to publish, then I can probably jstify shuffling my schedule a bit).

For skills i think we need some concrete notion of the setting before we flesh that out. But generally how broad do we want each skill to be? I dont want quite as broad and lean as savage worlds, but also dont want as detailed as gurps.

No hit locations please. If we're going to do rules-lite let's do it right. If we're keeping combat as lite as everything else hit locations only add a bunch of complexity. It adds specifics to where you want a character to hit, makes bigger or odd shaped creatures "weird" necessitates special rules for what happens when you hit someone in a specific place, etc etc. People want their rules-lite comat quick and dirty.

The set up should be 2 rolls a to hit roll and a damage roll. The target/defender rolls a saok damage" roll and that's about it. We decide on lethality from their to get how many hits a character can take before doubling over and we'd be about done. If you want status effects then we'd make special rolls and defenses for that as well but we still don't make it too complicated.

We also have to keep in mind that we're working with a very small range so a skilled and talented character who specializes in something is going to quickly accrue bonuses necessary to pretty much do whatever that thing is well every time. not a bad thing but we have to always bear with the fact that we can't do a lot with the numbers.

Now if we ARE going to do the hit locations thing on the other hand there are certain then things are gonna get a little more complicated.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;566836Right now I have too many projects to engage in any writing on this one (unless it becomes clear this will be something we actually intend to publish, then I can probably jstify shuffling my schedule a bit).

For skills i think we need some concrete notion of the setting before we flesh that out. But generally how broad do we want each skill to be? I dont want quite as broad and lean as savage worlds, but also dont want as detailed as gurps.

You want a bunch of skills (because we want a vague game) and you want them free form. You give a vague description of what each one does then alow players to talk with their GMs about whether or not they can apply them to a given situaton in some fashion. Baically think GURPS. In a game like this you seriously will have an "etiquette" skill and it will do some vague thing like teaching you how to be mannerable in various situations and you use it whenever you're in a high profile or foreign situation when diplomacy is needed or a knowledge of a culture's customs becomes an issue, or whereever else you can squeeze them in. What specific skills we include can be come up with at any time.

Quote from: MGuy;566887No hit locations please. If we're going to do rules-lite let's do it right. If we're keeping combat as lite as everything else hit locations only add a bunch of complexity. It adds specifics to where you want a character to hit, makes bigger or odd shaped creatures "weird" necessitates special rules for what happens when you hit someone in a specific place, etc etc. People want their rules-lite comat quick and dirty.
.

I have to agree with this. If its rules light a to hit location rule feels very out of place to me.

Quote from: MGuy;566889You want a bunch of skills (because we want a vague game) and you want them free form. You give a vague description of what each one does then alow players to talk with their GMs about whether or not they can apply them to a given situaton in some fashion. Baically think GURPS. In a game like this you seriously will have an "etiquette" skill and it will do some vague thing like teaching you how to be mannerable in various situations and you use it whenever you're in a high profile or foreign situation when diplomacy is needed or a knowledge of a culture's customs becomes an issue, or whereever else you can squeeze them in. What specific skills we include can be come up with at any time.

I am assuming combat will also be skills and how that is cut up will be very dependant on the setting. Same with many of the tech skills. I would like to avoid skills with too much cross over if possible.