Quote from: Jiaxingseng;886593OK.  Interfering is the generic "throw a bag of sand in the opponent's face" mechanic.  This could be anything.  With a shield, Interfering is focusing on blocking and giving up an attack.  Why would someone do that when they don't have a special ability?  Because they see their opponent with too many Advantages.  Because they are Interfering for an Ally, etc.

Now Sartin has a rapier and abilities associated with that.  Which means that when he Interferes instead of attacks, it is much more likely to use that tool.

It is, but if he has a fistful of sand his opponent doesn't know about, and a rapier...which one you think is going to be more useful?

QuoteNow below you said that I'm just giving players one mechanical way of doing things (actually three... attacking, Interfering, and Leveraging).  But within those three, always with the same equipment.  Is there a reason to Interfere, in combat, without the rapier?  I'm thinking...No... or... I could build in a way to make the attack to apply a non-Wound Condition.But why do this when the player can inflict a Wound condition (of which 4 would take out a PC)?  Taking Out an NPC has a narrative effect... the victor decides the fate... so there is no reason for this. (well... morale attacks cause non-Wound conditions, but that's a different issue)

Let's take the above example. Who's saying you're interfering only with the sand, and not with sand and weapons? Or blocking with the shield-you think it only uses the shield?
Yes, I know most games do it that way, but this is a game in development.

QuoteI shield would increase the armor class by a little.

Well, the amount is a balancing act, I guess.

QuoteMy impression is that rapiers could not block heavier weapons like spears, big swords, etc.  Block is maybe not the right word... beat out of the way.

They can withstand the shock, if that's what you mean. What they can't really do, in my limited experience, is hold them in the bind which is going to follow. And they suck against any kind of armour from chain and up.

QuoteDoesn't .  But PCs have a narrative armor with 4 Wounds... and the ability to out-fence the NPC who is wearing plate and with a great sword.  But just barely.  Which is what I wanted to go for.  If I was going for extreme realism... would there be any reason (besides heat and social norms) to wear plate an wield anything other than a Great Sword or Poleax?

You mean to NOT wear plate? No, apart from availability, price and it being fucking tiring to wear all day!
Wield anything else? On a battlefield, almost none, unless you want to surprise someone outfitted with one of them. In street fights and rooms? They still require space you might well not have almost most of the time in a medieval setting.

QuoteThis did get me thinking though... in this setting, blade weapons are retractable and ultra-light.   Which would change the nature of the weapons.  

Well, then the rapier loses even more advantages.

QuoteBut this was the idea of offering a Leverage and Interfere actions.  It's for when the player feels that the only way to get in and damage the heavilly armored opponent is first to grapple them (Leverage), but in the process, expose the PC to attack.

OK, that makes sense.

QuoteYeah... bunch of people on reddit argued the opposide with me.  And many have said that rapiers are battlefield weapons as well.  If so... why would one use that instead of a poleax or greatsword (on a battlefield)?

May I have the link?
They either mean something else under "rapier", or know better than both reenactors and historical masters.
Because we have no such data, other than some people with longer weapons having rapiers as side-arms that they probably didn't expect to use. Bonus points if they also didn't expect to fight, like being commanders.

Of course, maybe they just mean "a battlefield" that's not in the age of plate armours. Then yes, a rapier might work. But even relatively little armour will screw that up-and your example tells me you actually have plate!

QuoteYes... so they have almost the same armor in the example.  Only the thief's armor comes from being dodgy.  I feel I should re-think this.

I agree;).

QuoteWHAT never made sense?  Using purchase-able Knacks to signify the close-combat skill?  But... you feel that with a rapier or sword and shield it should be different?

No, sorry for being unclear - I mean just the "choking" principle shouldn't be worth a Knack. Not opposed to knacks in principle.
And with a rapier you don't do that, because it removes the most important advantage of your weapon - reach.
With a sword and shield you don't do that for the simple reason that your second hand is occupied and not on the handle. Also, you don't need choking the blade in order to be effective up close, because the shield is a big second weapon, very good up close.

Quote from: AsenRG;886962It is, but if he has a fistful of sand his opponent doesn't know about, and a rapier...which one you think is going to be more useful?

It seems you are suggesting twist on this "leverage" mechanic for surprise or original usage.

Quote from: AsenRG;886962...Who's saying you're interfering only with the sand, and not with sand and weapons? ...

I'm trying not to present it as "you are only using your weapon to do this...".  Maybe I should can make it more explicit... it is something that you do when using the fighting skill or style you learned.  Hmmm... which sounds better actually.
 

Quote from: AsenRG;886962You mean to NOT wear plate?

My mistake.

Quote from: AsenRG;886962May I have the link?

No.  I'm not going to search through this to facilitate a Great Sword vs. Rapier argument.

Quote from: AsenRG;886962Then yes, a rapier might work. But even relatively little armour will screw that up-and your example tells me you actually have plate!

You think big blades are better at piercing chain and leather (talking boiled hardened leather here BTW) than a sharp thrusting weapon?

Quote from: AsenRG;886962No, sorry for being unclear - I mean just the "choking" principle shouldn't be worth a Knack.

This is sort of a balance problem for me.  In my system, a lot of things are just "well if you are X, you know how to do this".  I want Knacks to add mechanical complexity and differentiation to the game because I and many players like that.  But really, with weapons, usually if you can use the weapon you can do X, Y, and Z with that weapon.  Which means I should take out weapons Knacks.  Which are a lot of my Knacks.

Quote from: Jiaxingseng;887036It seems you are suggesting twist on this "leverage" mechanic for surprise or original usage.

Actually, I'm asking whether it does include it already. But feel free to treat it as a suggestion, too:)!

QuoteI'm trying not to present it as "you are only using your weapon to do this...".  Maybe I should can make it more explicit... it is something that you do when using the fighting skill or style you learned.  Hmmm... which sounds better actually.

Yeah, my point is that when throwing acid in your face, because we're fighting in your lab, I'm also stabbing at you and cutting you with my sabre, in a semi-automatic combo;). But if I get more bonuses for just focusing on the fencing, why would I, as a player, ever bother to look for improvised weapons?

QuoteMy mistake.

NP.

QuoteNo.  I'm not going to search through this to facilitate a Great Sword vs. Rapier argument.

You think I want to argue with them:D? That's funny.
No. I'm interested in what source references they might have given. I just didn't want to ask you to copy them for me.

QuoteYou think big blades are better at piercing chain and leather (talking boiled hardened leather here BTW) than a sharp thrusting weapon?

Not sure about leather. But historically, chain was often worn under the clothes to protect against rapiers, and did so successfully (with the rapiers occasionally breaking).
Same chain wearers would try not to expose their armour to a big blade's stab - which could even pierce plate armour (though you'd need sufficient strength, leverage, momentum and a relatively vulnerable part of the armour, preferably one with a gap that you must, at most, widen).

If you're wondering, the physics behind that are simple. First, a spear or a longsword used in half-sword style, is held with both hands for improved strength and leverage. Second, this makes it easier to focus on the armour instead of the point slipping.
Last, and most important, the spear haft or the longsword's thicker blade can transmit all the power without breaking or bending (just like a correctly executed punch doesn't fold upon itself when it connects, while one that does, hurts much less).
And let's not forget, longswords meant to defeat armour have relatively thin, thicker and stiffer blades. "Longsword" isn't an uniform notion.

QuoteThis is sort of a balance problem for me.  In my system, a lot of things are just "well if you are X, you know how to do this".

Yeah, I think that choking on the blade is this. I can live with it being a Knack, as I said - just personal opinion.
Now, grappling with the blade might well be worth a Knack, if the system differentiates between the two.

QuoteI want Knacks to add mechanical complexity and differentiation to the game because I and many players like that.  But really, with weapons, usually if you can use the weapon you can do X, Y, and Z with that weapon.

Indeed, though only in some cases.

QuoteWhich means I should take out weapons Knacks.  Which are a lot of my Knacks.

No, not all of them. You can fight with a weapon knowing just the basic strikes and defences, after all;).
Just decide what the basic style without Knacks entails, and stick to it.

Personally, I find that players like to roll dice, and an added die feels to a player like a small victory already, because it's giving them the impression of more punch. if your system is working better with the added 1d6, then who gives a tinkers dang if it's aesthetically pleasing because if the resolutions on average pleases the players, then does it matter what the notation looks like on paper?

Anyway in most standard house holds, finding a spare d6 is a lot easier than finding a d10. It's not like the lowly forgotten d12.... Oh how I miss thee, great Orc Axe of +1 enchantment....