It's summer. School responsibilities and work responsibilities will likely diminish, so I'm planning to seek group and run games once more. Been too damn long.

But prepping the way I did in high school (and in that weird gap between hs and college) is still way too time consuming for now. So I'm thinking of actually obtaining a bunch of premade stuff and repurposing it. And I'm thinking I might also run more than one game on the same prep, one online and one in person.

In person, I'm thinking of getting the Sunday night crew at the restaurant where I work to play after shifts. So I need something pretty casual friendly. And for my own sake, I'm interested in a bit of domain management. And for the hell of it, I want the first session or two to be a "funnel." Why not? Online possibilities will depend on my schedule and whoever I get involved (for those interested in joining, I guess PM me).

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As for what material I'm looking to use, I could use advice from anyone who has used any of the following, maybe tips on getting things more cheaply or supplementing them with cheap/free material:

ACKS: I have a PDF, but I apparently do better with print books. Not sure If I should print what I need, or buy a hardback for myself. I'll probably at least print pages relevant to character generation a couple of times for the benefit of the players.

AER: For those that don't know the acronym, it's An Echo Resounding. It's a supplement with more rules for domain management. Again, I have a PDF and need to decide whether to buy a print copy or print what I have.

Kingmaker (and/or River Kingdoms): I would probably only want books 1 and 2, but print availability and cost may be an issue. I've also heard Book of the River Kingdoms better organizes the kingdom information. If anyone has any experience with either of these products I'd like to hear about it.

Majestic Wilderlands: Mostly because why not? I've heard good things and I can use all the help and reference I can get on what will be my first hex crawl.

Other: If anyone has any suggestions on converting or generating a lot of content fast (I'm mostly worried about converting monsters and prices between PF and ACKS), or good free stuff I could plop in here (especially dungeons), I'm all ears.

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Beyond that, and on an unrelated note, I'm reading The Clandestinauts online, loving it, and hoping to work this kind of tone into the campaign.

So far I have PDFs of parts I and II for Kingmaker, plus Book of the River Nations (which details the hex movement and domain rules minus the specific adventure material).

I also have on PDF An Echo Resounding and Adventurer Conqueror King.

So I'll be cobbling together hexcrawl rules and domain rules from these things. So far I've read most out of River Nations and An Echo Resounding, though I've got a rough grasp of the hex crawl rules from ACKS.

On Hexcrawls:
I really like the landmark/standard/hidden rules for locations in Kingmaker.
I really like the different types of locations in AER (assets, lairs, etc.)
I especially like what would happen if I mashed these things up (hidden assets and lairs, for example).

I like the navigation rules in ACKS, more or less. Kingmaker has no real rules for getting lost, so I'm glad to be able to plug that hole. I'll probably call for checks 1x day, whenever a party changes direction, and whenever someone would be disoriented (fleeing from monsters, being carried away by a river).

I do not like the 12 mile hexes, based on the "four Washington DCs" description. That's a hell of an area for (say) a lone trapper to fill with bear traps, as described in the KM adventures.

I don't necessarily know if I agree with the speeds given in either ACKS or KM. I'll likely use zone-based movement in combat and just break down a number of hexes based on whether the party is mounted or not, plus terrain.
I prefer 2 mph walking (just based on my own experience hiking), 4 hour shifts, and 2 hexes on an average shift (so I can reduce the number). So hexes that go 4 miles from one face to the opposite face seem the way to go.

On random encounter tables, I'll likely homebrew something. I'll likely have to do monsters from scratch (unless somebody knows a good ACKS-compatible bestiary).

And I want good rules for spotting distances etc. and maybe how able the party is to see far off stuff depending on altitude, trees, etc. I want "we see smoke in the distance" to happen and matter, for example. If anyone knows some good ready-made stuff along these lines, I'm all ears.

On Domains:
I've just got to say I don't like some elements of AER. I love the procedures the loose framework implies and may help me build, but I'd honestly prefer something more like a game-manual with less prose and less left to my discretion.

I like having stats for a kingdom, and will likely derive the stats I use from AER and Book of the River Nations. I will likely treat wealth and economy (from each game) as one stat. I don't know if I'll keep the stability/loyalty split or treat them both as AER's social. I'll almost certainly keep a military stat. I may use the military instead of loyalty for "peacekeeping" in a domain turn. And I'm really tempted to have health or something like it. There are no plagues in these games yet and that's a damn shame. I'd also like to figure out how unrest and atrocity relate to each other, if at all. Treasure and treasury seem obviously similar, while upkeep and consumption likewise seem alike.

Once I get all stats converted to a similar system I've got to figure out what to do with a turn.

Book of the River Nations makes bigger kingdoms harder to maintain and such (the DC you want to hit with your per-turn stat checks goes up). I like that. BotRN also has random events on a given turn, which I like. Conversely, AER has obstacles, lairs, etc. and outlines their effects but leaves their application to my discretion. I may plug these mechanics together, allow a kingdom to "save" against random events using its stats. I may even replace rolling every turn on every stat with this procedure. A failed save may be negated by a quest sometimes too I guess.

AER also has lairs send nuisances to attack your settlements, and if you don't deal with them you can lose stuff. I like this. I wish I could plug it in to random events but that could get weird in a few ways. Again I may allow the save and/or quest solution here.

More ideas later as I have them, especially once I get a firmer grasp on ACKS domain management.

Another idea I just had is that I can fold income and upkeep into the same step. Basically all I have to do is apply the upkeep as a penalty to control checks and allow negative income to happen if you're doing poorly. (I promise this will all make sense if and when I post finalized kingdom stats, turn procedures, etc.)

So the super simplified rules for domain management so far:

STATS
Size: Sets the DC for saving throws and income/upkeep.

Wealth (Treasure)
Social (Treasure)
Military (Treasure)

In all cases: Wealth, social, and military are static values, whereas the corresponding treasure is the value "spent" on actions relating to those fields.

DOMAIN TURN
Taken roughly monthly

1)Roll each stat vs your kingdom's size to determine your kingdom's income or upkeep (I'll probably write a table for this EDIT: I'll probably use 3d6 + stat vs size (10+ something) and use half the margin you failed or succeeded by). I'll probably cap treasure based on the stat value.
2)Roll random event (s). You are allowed a save depending on the event. If you roll a bad event and fail your save, it happens. If you roll a good event and succeed on your save, it happens.
3)Roll for each lair in your kingdom to see if it does anything.
4) (Optional) Roll for when in the month the event(s) occurs.

DOMAIN ACTIONS
Taken whenever you like, provided you are in the right place.

1)Construct/Claim/Abandon a location.
2)Deploy/Disband an asset (soldiers, etc.)

LOCATIONS: Can help or hurt your kingdom in various ways.
Lair: What it says on the tin. Lairs are often hidden, sometimes generated and placed as random events, and will attack periodically. Lairs will house bears, bandits, dragons, or whatever makes sense for a lair to house.
Resource: A resource is untapped by default. You can build certain structures on a resource to capitalize on them. Resources can be trees, ore, gems, water, or whatever.
Structure: A structure can be built, found and claimed, or generated by events (as settlers move in). Structures may require resources to establish (such as a mine over an ore vein), may penalize a stat to represent ongoing costs (such as a fortress requiring monetary upkeep), and nearly always require some time and resources to construct. I may also decide that military buildings claim territory around them (increasing a kingdom's size) and new structures need either direct access to food (through farms, fisheries) or indirect access (through rivers, roads). In any case, structures and the settlements that grow around them will be where you get most of your stat boosts (and some stat penalties) as your kingdom grows. And additionally, specific structures can deploy specific assets, edicts, and the like.

OTHER:
Assets
Edicts
Officials

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Current issues and musings:
I don't necessarily need atrocity and unrest from AER and BotrN respectively. I can create hellish assets and cruel edicts that penalize Social, and the result will be similar in that your kingdom will suffer social unrest in the random events (which you can squash with military cruelty at your discretion).

Social is a weird stat because while I can easily see what happens when social is low (unrest) I can't necessarily figure out what assets it would deploy, what problems it would solve, or what would contribute positively to this stat.

If you are running Kingmaker as-is in terms of setting you will probably want to read up on Brevoy as well as the River Kingdoms.  The AP has the party being given a charter by the Swordlords of Restov, so there's always a strong possibility when playing Kingmaker that players will choose to explore Brevoy instead of the Stolen Lands, since there is no time limit on their charter.  Just reading the phrase "Swordlords of Restov" from the charter handout is an evocative enough title to practically invite a PC 'derail' from the hexcrawling portion of the AP.

There is no Brevoy companion (and it's not covered in any of the later AP installments either), but you can check out the Kingmaker subforum and DM reference threads for the Kingmaker AP over on Paizo's forum, which almost certainly has something useful in that regard.

Quote from: Wolf, Richard;649387If you are running Kingmaker as-is in terms of setting you will probably want to read up on Brevoy as well as the River Kingdoms.  The AP has the party being given a charter by the Swordlords of Restov, so there's always a strong possibility when playing Kingmaker that players will choose to explore Brevoy instead of the Stolen Lands, since there is no time limit on their charter.  Just reading the phrase "Swordlords of Restov" from the charter handout is an evocative enough title to practically invite a PC 'derail' from the hexcrawling portion of the AP.

There is no Brevoy companion (and it's not covered in any of the later AP installments either), but you can check out the Kingmaker subforum and DM reference threads for the Kingmaker AP over on Paizo's forum, which almost certainly has something useful in that regard.

I am only very vaguely familiar with the setting here, and I do need to read up a great deal. In addition to shrinking the hex size, I was considering expanding the map a bit though. I'll be sure and look into Brevoy, the Swordlords, and Restov. Thanks for the tip.

EDIT: In terms of setting detail, is there much missing from the first two books? I'd rather not buy more than I'd need to, but I'm also interested to see where the AP goes. Since I'm going to have to do a lot of conversion from scratch, I may reduce the level of the high end AP material anyway.

From what I can recall outside of Brevoy and the adjoining River Kingdoms (which you said you have the book for?) everything else should be covered.  The further installments of the AP cover the River Kingdoms as well, but they would be superfluous with the campaign setting supplement.

Quote from: Wolf, Richard;649853From what I can recall outside of Brevoy and the adjoining River Kingdoms (which you said you have the book for?) everything else should be covered.  The further installments of the AP cover the River Kingdoms as well, but they would be superfluous with the campaign setting supplement.

The books I have is this one. The name is a little misleading.

Ah, I thought you were referring to the Guide to the River Kingdoms: http://paizo.com/products/btpy8d50?Pathfinder-Chronicles-Guide-to-the-River-Kingdoms

I would consider it at least, for the CYA of the adventure going off the rails, just like with Brevoy.  The book details the APs other border; the Stolen Lands ostensibly being part of the River Kingdoms, at least according to the people of the River Kingdoms.  In terms of having names and places for your PCs to go off the rails without having to ad lib it might be worth it.  Rivalry with River Kingdoms NPCs and rulers is actually the subject of books 3-5 of the AP for that matter.  Even if you aren't running them, it seems like a likely way for the game to develop, especially by the the second part of the AP where they are set up as rulers, they'll probably be interested in knowing about their neighbors, if not before then.

I'll likely need to pick up that one too. Thanks for your help.

I have updated post 4. I have very nearly finished the first draft of my domain rules. Of course, I need to stat up different resource types, location types, lair types, and a million other little details, but hopefully the resources I have will help give me a rough idea of what I need.

I also need to post my rough hex crawl rules at some point.

So I'm working on assigning point values to things, and i want to make sure that there are reasons to build both "up" (upgrading your communities) and "out" baked into the math of the game.

EDICTS: I'm taking the PF approach to edicts, but allowing all six possible trades. At low values, these will be 1-for-1, but at high values they will become inefficient. They're cheap and fast relative to building or growth.

As a sample, here's "taxes" as they currently stand. Builds your wealth, costs you social.
0/0 (default taxes)
+1/-1
+2/-3
+3/-5
+4/-7
+5/-9

BUILT STRUCTURES: Built structures benefit you more than they cost no matter the level, but the ratio is better earlier. At least some may require scarce resources for placement, encouraging the expansion of borders.

As a sample, let's say these are "garrisons" as they currently stand. Builds military, costs wealth.

+1/-0
+2/-1
+3/-2
+4/-3
+5/-4

RANDOM STRUCTURES: These structures appear or grow depending on the events chart, roughly abstracting population and community growth. They start off giving more than they take, but if they level past a certain point they'll do the reverse. Eventually your population will cost more. And if you don't deal with the cost, growth slows and problems become more likely and frequent (through the stat checks you make to confirm/prevent randomly generated events).

As a sample, let's say markets increase wealth but need military protection.
+1/-0
+2/-2
+3/-4
+4/-6
+5/-8

Math and details are extremely up in the air right now. I might especially like to pare these things down to three steps (to speed growth)