Maybe have a modifier for pilot skill/experience to reflect being able to nurse a plane back to base and avoid rookie mistakes like operating the plane on WEP for too long, stressing the airframe too much, or otherwise mechanically abusing the aircraft?

Quote from: TimMaybe have a modifier for pilot skill/experience to reflect being able to nurse a plane back to base and avoid rookie mistakes like operating the plane on WEP for too long, stressing the airframe too much, or otherwise mechanically abusing the aircraft?

Got it, Tim! Thanks!

-clash

Quote from: Old GeezerI've been looking for a decent WW2 aircraft wargame since 1971.  Of COURSE I'm still here.

Here's hoping Aces And Angels fits the bill.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceGot it, Tim! Thanks!

-clash

You're welcome!

Of course, the other side of the coin is letting the player choose to do all those bad things to his aircraft in order to gain a performance bonus at the risk of breaking something. There are some pretty interesting choices there, especially in context of something like the British forces at the nadir/zenith (depending on what side you're on) of the Battle of Britain. Something like trying to gain Notice by making a tactical decision that is, ultimately, strategically bad. Or is that too much of a forgey tangent?

Quote from: TimYou're welcome. Of course, the other side of the coin is letting the player choose to do all those bad things to his aircraft in order to gain a performance bonus at the risk of breaking something. Or is that too forgey?

Nope! It fits right in with the system, actually. For example, you can already push points from chance of success (in combat AKA to hit) to quality of success (in combat AKA damage) and vice versa, effectively giving the player character abstract tactical choices without overhead. Say your skill + your position gives you an 80% chance to hit. You can push say 20 points from to hit to damage, giving you a 60% chance to hit, and 20 more points of damage. This effectively does the same thing, using the same pre-existing mechanism. Say you are in combat. You can horse your machine around, gaining an arbitrary bonus - say +20 - to your maneuver. Doing so cues the GM to make a Maintenance check with a corresponding +20. If you are nursing your battered crate back to base, make a skill check with another arbitrary bonus - say -20 - and the GM is cued to make another Maintenance check with the same -20 modifier.

Again, great idea! Luckily I could stretch the existing mechanics to cover it.

-clash

Quote from: TimYou're welcome!

Of course, the other side of the coin is letting the player choose to do all those bad things to his aircraft in order to gain a performance bonus at the risk of breaking something. There are some pretty interesting choices there, especially in context of something like the British forces at the nadir/zenith (depending on what side you're on) of the Battle of Britain. Something like trying to gain Notice by making a tactical decision that is, ultimately, strategically bad. Or is that too much of a forgey tangent?

If you can point to a historical example to support it, go for it!  People make suboptimal decisions in warfare all the time!

Cool beans, Clash. Sounds like you've got that sort of thing covered.

Quote from: Old GeezerIf you can point to a historical example to support it, go for it!  People make suboptimal decisions in warfare all the time!

Yeah, I don't have any particular sources to cite (or the time to find them, right now), but I can't imagine pilots not abusing their machines to get that extra bit of performance in a life-or-death situation.

As far as the Battle of Britain stuff, Len Deighton's book on the subject (which, I believe, is creatively titled "The Battle of Britain") goes on and on about the troubles the RAF had keeping machines in the air and qualified pilots to fly them during the period when the Luftwaffe was heavily targeting airfields. Darkest hour, and all that.

In fact, McGuire paid the ultimate price when he made a disasterous tactical decision, counting on his immense skill. He did not lose his drop tanks while attempting to perform a difficult maneuver in a dogfight with an Oscar 300 feet above Cebu in the Phillipines.

-clash

More questions, Clash.

How are you handling situational awareness? Does the plane's construction enter into the equation (Bubble-canopied P-51s vs. a FW-190, with it's big-assed metal plate behind the pilots head)? Or is that just waaaaaay too fiddly?

How about tactics? Will real-life successful tactics produce 'realistic' in-game results? Would you handle such a thing with a separate ability, or is it subsumed within other stats/skills?

godDAMN i can't wait for this to come out!

no pressure, clash.  

good questions, tim, thanks for chiming in!

Quote from: Old GeezerIf you can point to a historical example to support it, go for it!  People make suboptimal decisions in warfare all the time!

According to anecdote, Richard Bong and Tommy McGuire both used to return to base with their P-38s warped to hell by the violent maneuvering they employed. Here's a snippet from Wikipedia, but I originally read this in a book:

"The American ace of aces and his closest competitor both flew Lightnings as they tallied 40 and 38 victories each. Majors Richard I. "Dick" Bong and Thomas J. "Tommy" McGuire of the USAAF competed for the top position, a rivalry made interesting by the contrast in personalities of the two men. Both Bong and McGuire were unbelievably aggressive and fearless in the air. After dogfights, their P-38s would be warped out of shape by overstress."

-clash

Quote from: TimMore questions, Clash.

How are you handling situational awareness? Does the plane's construction enter into the equation (Bubble-canopied P-51s vs. a FW-190, with it's big-assed metal plate behind the pilots head)? Or is that just waaaaaay too fiddly?

Situational awareness is covered by two separate skills: Observation and Alertness.

Alertness covers catching sight of something new - a peripheral sense. You use this skill to aquire new targets

Observation covers keeping sight of something you are focusing on - an attention sense. You use this skill to follow a target already aquired.

I think a plane-based modifier may be realistic, but too fiddly. I may put it in the optional rules, though.

QuoteHow about tactics? Will real-life successful tactics produce 'realistic' in-game results? Would you handle such a thing with a separate ability, or is it subsumed within other stats/skills?

The Tactics skill gives your group a bonus to your initial attack, and can give you surprise if the other side fails their Tactics check. Once a dogfight is started, real life tactics, like a Thatch Weave, can be used by combining maneuvers.

-clash

Quote from: beebergodDAMN i can't wait for this to come out!

no pressure, clash.  

good questions, tim, thanks for chiming in!

Yes! Tim has been throwing in some excellent questions.

I just hope I can get this out by Pearl Harbor day... :O

-clash

quick one before i go to class:

rules for turret weapons, like on bombers or (IIRC) avengers?

Quote from: flyingmiceI think a plane-based modifier may be realistic, but too fiddly. I may put it in the optional rules, though.

I wasn't sure how the planes and pilots interact. Say, if the plane was sort of a template attached to the pilot's ability, such a thing would be pretty simple to handle, but if the interaction is more complicated than that, tracking the umpteen billion different versions of canopies would be a real pain in the ass! I like that you have separated out tracking and noticing things. They're certainly two different skills in flight sims (for whatever that's worth).

QuoteThe Tactics skill gives your group a bonus to your initial attack, and can give you surprise if the other side fails their Tactics check. Once a dogfight is started, real life tactics, like a Thatch Weave, can be used by combining maneuvers.

Cool. Sounds like an excellent way to handle tactics, to me.

I still think you should do the game up military flight-manual style, though. Maybe a normal book for the RPG portions and a small grungy tan book for air combat maneuvers, full of typewriter type, stark tables, shadow profiles of planes, and those cool maneuver diagrams.