Rather than try to search through the occasionally contradictory main thread on Haven for various details, and in an attempt to clean things up a bit and give my players (starting a new campaign sunday!, and maybe a forum game once my long distance players sign on...) something to work with, I present the rather incomplete list of 'the Gods of Haven' (in case you missed the thread title)

As a long established fact there are several 'orders' of Gods that serve less as  a divider of power and more of nature.  I will keep this list broken down by those catagories as possible.

The First Gods:  

Many of the First are unknown to the lesser races, and may be unknown even to many of the other Gods.  They are, on the main, unconcerned with Worship, though many of the known ones do receive it.   To keep the Great Engine running smoothly, those First who receive regular worship may have a number of lesser 'aspect' Gods, technically Gods of the World, who serve as administrative personnel in the Heavens, go betweens for the worshippers.   It is these Aspects who provide any blessings or 'divine' magics, though they themselves are only rarely worshipped themselves, or even known of.    Many of the Aspect Gods were created directly by Smith just for this purpose and are essentially Divine Constructs, though a few are ascended mortals.

Sun:  The most widely worshipped of all the First, and said to possess some sort of rivalry or disregard for Sky, though some say the rivalry begins with Sky.  Sun also has the most Aspects, many of whom receive worship in their own right.  Sun is worshipped by the lizard tribes of all the world with the exception of the tribes of Lu. The nation of Hesh is currently dominated by Priests of a Sun worshipping cult, and a significant Sun cult is prevelant in southern Nornsa, worshipping through its Aspect of 'The Light of Truth', though the Southern Nornsa's have applied Sun Aspects to all their gods as a result.  In the Pepper Savannah's the Sun is said to be the patron of the Mortal God Wei Shakti.  The Desert nomads Hesh, and some halfling tribes of the Dragon Desert worship, or rather Placate, Sun through his Aspect of 'Burning'.

Sky: Sky is known and acknowledged by almost all of Haven as a God, but is only worshipped commonly by the tribes of the Tundrid Plateau, who's lands are closest to Him, though they worship him through his aspect of Storms.   Night is said to be another, feminine aspect that receives some minimal worship in scattered cults, notably in Hesh were they struggle with the dominant Sun cult. The Aspect of 'Father Sky' is a powerful Spirit who has ascended to divinity and is commonly worshipped in the Sea of Grass, as well as to a lesser extent by some inhabitants of the Pepper Savannah.

Sea: Placated by the Reve, and by extension sailors everywhere in a feminine aspect, and worshipped by a few fishermen, Sea is one of the First who is least appreciative of worship while not actually being oblivious too it.  Sea is said to be a cruel and harsh mistress to those who live above her surface and can only be bribed, though her few devout priests occasionally form 'drowning cults'... only those who truly grasp her nature survive their rituals, the unworthy occasionally surface as undead, leading some to suspect that Sea, or at least one of her Aspects has a feud with Death.

Jujamoin:  The lone mountain in the Sea of Grass is venerated as a God by many of the Nomad tribes of the Sea, and is completely unheard of elsewhere. Jujamoin exemplefies an aspect of the First that is poorly understood by mortals, that the First do not exist in the Heavens but are the very fabric of Haven.  The God is the mountain and the mountain is the God.  
Like most of the First, Jujamoin could care less about the mortal races that venerate it, scurry across its surface and more... in fact, this particular God is so ambivilent that it does not even acknowledge its own, singular Aspect (also known as Jujamoin), much less the other Gods.

Earth: Primarly worshipped through female aspects in fertility rites where ever crops are grown, typically via locally grown cults.  Despite the obvious connections, Dwarves do not worship Earth, or any of the First. There are aspects of Earth that are worshipped by the Goblins, though not so muchh as to be 'organized' into a single faith, and some who specialize in Earth Magics worship the Earth as the Father of Elementals.

Erd: the mighty river of the northern continent is in fact one of the First, though it should be noted that the Erd is much like Jujamoin... with a split personality (some argue the Erd is two rivers that share a single source, there is much to be said of this theory.)  Erd has several aspects, some of whom are more active than others, and in fact is an ideal example of a First who's Aspects do not appear to work towards a unified goal but actually have enough independance to suggest several Gods.  Regardless of which Aspects of Erd get worshipped, all power ultimately flows to and from the First.  Erd is most heavily worshipped in Hesh, with several Aspects all worshipped together under that name.

The First Smith:  The most curious of the First, and to Mortal eyes the most important. Smith created the Great Engine, setting it in the Mortal Realm, all the arts and crafts of the world are said to originate from Him, and Smith is said to have created many of the Gods, and is the only god who absolutely can grant Apotheosis to a Mortal (though this is to say that who knows if any other God can, Smith is the only one who has been demonstrated to do so, regularly.  Some scholars believe that Smith may, ultimately, be the First God ultimately responsible for the creation of Haven itself, though he could not have done so without the other First.   Smith is little known and, while venerated is also not worshipped directly. Rather than have aspects as the other First, the Smith created Gods to be worshipped in his stead, though of all the First he is said to take the most interest in the affairs of mortals.

The Demonlords:

These beings are equivilent to the First, sharing much of their natures, though more Usurpers than creators.  A significant difference is that the Demonlords are not manifested physically upon the Face of Haven, though the most powerful of them are similar on the other side of Haven, the Demon Realms.  Those particular Demonlords only recieve worship from lesser Demons, and that far more rarely than their divine counterparts, and lack 'Aspects'.  Those Demonlords who do receive mortal Worship are like the First only in that they came to Haven directly from the Primordial Chaos that exists outside of it.  Those receiving worship are the among the 'lesser' orders of Demonlords that may have a single, if mutable, body that exists separate from the warp and weft of the Demon Realms themselves.  No Demonlord has Aspects, though they may cultivate worship in a variety of Guises.


Abixili: Said to be the Patron of the Deaylyreath, and whose name comes to us from tales of those debased beings.  Abixili favors the ambitious and the proud, those who are not content with merely mortal power.  He has never appeared in the mortal realm personally but his demonic servitors take the forms of urbane sophistates who offer power in return for service.

Ya'b:  This demonlord is said to have been summoned to the Mortal Realms many times, the ten thousand secret names that might call him are secreted throughout Haven, those who call upon his name carelessly are devoured gleefully, and so he is known as The Ravager.  Still, his immense power and frequent appearances have led to his being worshipped by those who respect power and destructive fury, or propriated by those who traffic with Demons. It is believed by many that worship of Ya'b pleases him and so he will not devour those who accidentally summon him, or alternatively he enforces pacts made with other Demons so they might not easily be subverted.   Many of the more fearsome Gods of Tenebria are believed to be Ya'b under several of his names.

Ogatamoi:  This Demonlord is said to have the power to create, and is worshipped by the greedy.  The normal purpose of such worship is to bring Ogatamoi to the Mortal Realm, or at least his servants, that they might bring whatever objects the worshipper desires... though as with many Demonlords eventually worship becomes its own ideal and purpose.  It is believed by some that the strange and mysterious 'Order of the Coin' in Renbluve is secretly a cult for Ogatamoi worship.  His servitor Demons appear most frequently as inanimate objects of incredible value, though the more powerful ones frequently appear as mirror images of the summoner. Among his worshippers this is considered a blessing, among sages and savants it is considered an ill omen.

Hotheb:  Called the Beautiful One, Hotheb is worshipped openly by the Teneb Dynasts.  Hotheb is said to teach his faithful the secrets to Eternal Youth and demands that his followers do not practice any magic but that he grants.  His Servitors take the forms of beautiful youths of either gender (or neither) and are frequently called upon for their own sakes.   Hotheb is a comparatively minor Demonlord and frequently manifests in his main temple on behalf of his worshippers, that they might glory in his presence.  Despite the open worship by the Dynasts, Hotheb worship is among the most reviled by all the races as he demands frequent sacrifices of the young.  These sacrifices are taken alive into the Demon Realm, most do not return, those who do are insane, crippled and decrepit long before their time.  Some sages believe that Hotheb uses these youths as a magi might use a staff, to channel the Source of All for him, cleansing it with their flesh and minds.  

Reptile: Not considered a demon by any mortal, and generally not by the Gods either, Reptile is here because, like the Demonlords, he came to Haven after its creation, an unwanted guest.   Honestly he has much in common with the First Gods, being uncaring of Worship, concerned with the maintenance of Haven and so forth, though he does not traditionally have Aspects.  Reptile largely lives in the Mortal Realm, or at least tried to, some how he was sealed away from it into the Heavens by the Smith during the Titan's War.  He created, or was the patron of, most of the cold blooded races in Haven and, in a little understood way created a lesser version of the Great Engine from these beings.  He has never elevated one of his children to Godhood and has no Aspects, but several of the reptilian species have none the less become Gods, and his children hold no loyalty to him.  Reptile is said to have basked in the Hesh desert before his Exile, appearing as massive lizard at least a mile in length, with scales all the colors of the rainbow.  Rumors of a tribe of nomads in the Hesh who still venerate him can not be confirmed.

The Firstborn:

This is the smallest of all catagories of gods, those Gods who did not come from the Source of All, and were not created or elevated, but sprang naturally from the Creation of Haven and the Divine War against the Demons. Unlike the other lists this one will be, essentially, complete. Like the first and the Demonlords, the firstborn do not require worship, though they are more likely to respond to it personally.  They do not serve the purposes of the Great Engine directly, and can manifest, or exist, directly in the Mortal Realm and the Heavenly Realm simultaniously, and are said to be the only beings who can enter the Heavenly Realm and the Demon Realm freely. Worship of the Firstborn is theologically suspect as it does not serve the Great Engine, that is to say that it does not help keep Haven stable, but goes directly to the Firstborn themselves, though Death at least 'tithes' his worship properly.

Death:  Death is the most visible, active God.  Born of both God and Demon, during the Divine War, or more specifically born of the deaths of both of them during that conflict (the First Death in symbolic and literal terms).  Death is feared even by the Gods for it is the Ender of All Things, and some say its existence implies the end of Haven is inevitable.   For a long time Death personally oversaw the deaths of all living things and existed as an amorphous presence that blanketed the world like a pall.  As more and more creatures came into being Death turned only to overseeing the ends of specific beings, Gods and mighty heroes or kings, relagating the bulk of its duties to servitor beings known as Reapers.  The origins and natures of these Servitors is hotly debated, but even the Gods will not answer the least questions. Reapers are not infallible or unbeatable, but to thwart a Reaper is to invite a personal visit from Death himself.  During this time Death appeared much as before, but smaller and denser, and the Reapers mimicked their lord, though appeared to take on the appearance of a dead being of whatever species was being claimed.  

After the Warlord's death, the God took on a fully mortal appearance, that of a well dressed youth of indeterminate gender and urbane style, and a new breed of Servitors appeared, the Maidens of Death, blind gentle, merciful young women who coax the dead to the afterlife, though the Reapers still put in appearances. Some suggest the Maidens are the Reapers under a kinder face, others suggest that even Death could Die, but the nature of the God is such that another immedeately took its place.  

It should be noted that some argue that Death can not truly be the 'Ender of All', that in fact nothing can truly End but merely change states, and Death is the keeper of that Gate.  After all, Death was formed from the death of another being, and all dead things appear to have souls, and many destroyed objects have mirrors in the Underworld... a place where Death is strangely absent.    

Death is worshipped all over the world, largely as a benevolent deity and is held to be the ultimate Judge and arbitor of Laws.  Death represents order and the natural cycle.  He is worshipped by the famed Kerkeshi mercenaries, who dedicate their contracts and each kill to him.  More commonly, every culture has its own Death cult, largely concerned with funereal rites and, occasionally, putting down the Undead and hunting necromancers.  While Death does not appear to concern himself with mortal worship, those who worship him do receive blessings, those who serve as his mortal agents (ie removing 'cheaters') are especially blessed... though none may have the span of their days increased.  

Elves never worship death with the exception of the few survivors of the Danu, who may emulate the Reapers. The very rare Danu that worships Death attempts to direct the God's attention to his enemies.  They are not believed to have derived any benefit from this 'worship'.

Dwarves in particular seem to revere Death, calling him 'The Lifter of Burdens', and in fact many dwarves have been heard to exclaim 'May the lifter come!' after some particular bit of good fortune.  Rather than delve into Dwarven psychology this is frequently translated into 'Die Happy'.  


War:  The brother-god of Death, War is only infrequently seen in the mortal or Heavenly Realms in person.  War, unlike Death does not appear to be directly involved with the existence of war, but instead draws power from conflicts.  In fact, War only accepted worship in the form of conflict and battle. Those who sought conflict, who intended to fight recieved War's blessings as long as they continued to seek additional battles.  

This proved so ruinious to the Great Engine that the Smith created a number of other war Gods and somehow cut War off from mortal followers. While the Smith could not change the fact that War drew power from the conflicts, he could prevent Mortals from receiving War's Blessings.   As War had no form, no body, no presence no other actions or censure could be taken, not even by the First Gods.

No mortal can say how long this state of affairs persisted before War changed the state of being. The Warlord was the result, possible War itself, or perhaps some form of powerful Aspect or Servitor embued with the greatest portion of War's power.   Incarnate in the Mortal Realm, the very body of Haven, the Warlord could influence mortals around him directly, creating conflict where none was previously, and could bless mortals who served the Warlord, bypassing the restrictions created by Smith.  

It is believed that the Warlord wandered the world for some time before finally raising a great army of willing and unwilling mortals and beginning his March to bring the entire world of Haven to War.  

Even dead, the Warlord is still a conduit for worship of War directly, and a source of the blessings of War, though few realize this in the Mortal Realm.  Due to his death the Warlord is denied the Heavenly Realm and has not entered the Underworld either.  

The Warlord is mostly worshipped by his former followers, or their decendents, restricting it to the northern continent of Haven. More organized Orc and Goblin tribes are the dominant worshippers, though at least one Dragon is said to be a devotee of the Warlord.  Most unsually, however, is that 'worship' of the Warlord is the only form of worship that can be compelled by the God itself.  The goal of many Warlord Cults is to cast powerful, difficult, rituals that allow their dead God to turn his gaze upon a number of people (the more at once, the harder the ritual, though even a single person requires a lot of work...) allowing Him to force their worship in violation of the Great Engine.

This is problematic: To overcome his death and continue spreading War, the Warlord needs all the energy/worship he can get, but to compel that worship requires more energy than such rituals actually provide.


The Created:

These Gods were made as part of the Great Engine at the very dawn of Time. They are nearly as alien as the First Gods, though their thought processes and natures were designed to make them as accessable to Mortals as possible.  Over the Eons a few, very few, have been added to their ranks and those few resemble more the Ascended, and will be treated as the same.   The Created all have forms, and manifest only in the Heavenly Realms, their personalities and portfolios are somewhat mutable, meaning that they can change over time to suit the needs of their First lord and those who worship them.  Many represent abstract qualities the Smith required for the Great Engine. The Created do not require Worship to sustain themselves or their power, but as their primary purpose is to intercede for the First, without it they frequently go dormant until they are needed in a similar or altered role.

There are many Created that serve, not as Gods but as servitor beings to the Gods, and are capable of entering the Mortal Realms. The Very oldest of the Created were, in fact, weapons in the first Divine War, against the Demons, though no Mortal has ever seen one of these, and their natures are unknown.  They are said to enforce the great Pact that ended the First War, and keep the Gods from entering the Demon Realms as much as they keep the Demons in.  

The Beastlord: Nature Red of Tooth and Claw, this being has always represented the wild places of Haven, interceding for various of the First.  The Nornsan's represent him as Go Ai, the Maneater while the Amal Lizardfolk worship him as S'shozza, the Jungle Our Enemy, and he is frequently placated.  The Beastlord sees himself as the overseer of those beings to primative to worship and disdains the worship he receives from higher beings.  Over the Eons this diety has come to resent the First and the Ascended, beliving that it should be akin to the Firstborn.  He does not provide mortal races with his blessings, nor does he stay his wrath, but he dutifully directs the worship to the First it properly belongs too.  Were it not for the fact that even the lowest of beasts has a role in the Great Engine he would have been 'retired' long ago.

North Wind: An aspect of Sky, North wind is revered currently by the Wolfmen of the Tundrid Plateau, the bringer of warmth, while the Northmen of the Melitior Plains also call upon North Wind asking him to stay his hand, for he brings the cold snows.   He is unknown on the South Continent.

Agaia, the Sea Witch: a nearly forgotten aspect of Sea, once known and feared by the Spada, who resembled an old withered woman with black nails and seaweed in her hair.  Agaia was, by the Spada anyway, viewed as the patron of the Reve, who were believed to be her children.  The Spada long ago gave up the sea and also superstitions about the origins of the Reve.  Agaia still retains her name but is not worshipped by it, she receives her worship from the Reve, who merely call her 'the Sea'.  She is still a terrible figure who is to be feared.

Falcon: known only to the people of Xibaltci, and patron of that city. He was once an aspect of Sky but like all the 'bird gods' he is considered his own being now.  The rise of the Jui-De began as something of an experiment by Falcon, after being left to his own devices he's developed something of a sense of whimsy. Like all Created he does not truly understand the Mortals who worship him, and does not quite understand how to tend to his worshippers properly.   Falcon accepts all worship directed at birds of prey, though he has subordinate Ascended that handle most of the day to day for much of that.

Elagas: The City. When the Smith set about creating the Great Engine, He planned that the Mortal races would form groups, and this was to be encouraged.  Thus he created Elagas, the god of communities, more as an overseer than as a being to receive worship.  Elagas works constantly and subtly in the Mortal Realms to ensure that communities prosper. Elagas treats cities and communities much as a farmer treats his crops or a herdsmen treats his cattle.  Despite her nature, Mortals frequently learn of Elagas and naturally turn to worship of the Goddess. Like many Created she does not have a proper name, and Elegas is simply the name her most prominant worshippers gave her.  The name Elagas came down to the modern era from the Siti, though it is not a word in their language.  Elagas does appear to appreciate the attention, and cities with robust temples and cults to her do seem to thrive or overcome adversity.  Perhaps because she does appreciate the attention, or perhaps because it is part of the divine order of things, Elagas does provide blessings to her priests, as any God should.  She is very  popular in the Tenebrian Empire currently, though the sheer volume of Gods worshipped in the Empire makes this a minor thing.  Among the Elves the Siti and the elves of Illycli both respect her, and the City of Seven Spires is actually dedicated to her.  The Dwarves know of her but do not worship her, per se, but do respect her.  It can be said that their efforts to cultivate her affection in their city planning is a form of worship in and of itself.


The Ascended:

These are the most common, and more importantly the most commonly and directly worshipped of all the Gods.     Each of the Ascended began as a mortal creature, generally of the higher, smarter races.  Many were heroes and leaders among the very first tribes of their respective races, and became the first gods to their new species, others were given Godhood at the very moment of their race's birth.  The God of all Spiders is also the First Spider, and so forth.

This is an ongoing process, though it happens less often now than previously as there is a surfiet of Gods that aren't really doing much of anything these days.  The oldest of the Ascended represent Species no longer seen anywhere on Haven, and in some cases not even the deepest depths of the Underworld.  

Arguably the Ascended represent the weakest of the types of Gods, but their very ability to understand the Mortal Races makes them more useful to the Mortal Races, the most inclined to intervene and so forth. In some ways they can be more powerful than the others simply by this virtue.


Versilmatu: The youngest, newest Ascended.  In life, Versilimatu was an extraordinary man, but mortal as any other. The veneration he recieved in death was sufficent that, within a century of his Death he was plucked from where he languished in the Paths of the Dead and made a God, that he might serve his various Cults directly.    He is worshipped heavily in the region he ruled in life, though he only has a minimal presence outside of that area.   There are those who venerate him to a lesser extant in Paravail and a very few Tenebrians acknowledge his apotheosis.  He is worshipped primarily by Humans and some Half Elves/hybrids, a single cult of Elves in Illyacli study his life looking for signs of his divine nature.    He is served by the soul of Bovard, whom he revered in life.  Orcs native to the Melitior Plains have been known to curse his name, treating him as an 'evil god'... though some attempt to curry his favor.

Harm: Worshipped by humans in Nornsa and Dwarves, this is the same god. He is somewhat busy as a result. The clanholders consider him the god of War and Family, and his priests serve on the battlefields primarily.   To the dwarves, Harm represents Shelter, though he is more commonly worshipped in the South.  Harm, of course, is a Dwarf of exceptional size, though to appease his newest worshippers he has adopted many of the trappings of the clansmen of Nornska.

Anzaxi the Spider:  Appearing as a wizened old man dressed in loose loops of rope, Anzaxi is worshipped mostly on the Pepper Savannah's.  He is said to be cunning and wise, a teacher who cares for his people.  In the divine Realm Anzaxi looks more like the Spider  and less like a man, he is an ancient God of a long dead race.  After millenia without worshippers he adopted human tribes, teaching them his secrets.   He holds a grudge against Elagas for destroying his people's cities, dooming their race which is why he prefers to keep to people who can survive in the wild places.  Like most gods, Anzaxi does not truly think of himself as a member of that species, but a member of the Divine race.  He does insist on a sacrifice of a piece of rope or thread from his worshippers before he will give them attention, and he frequently appears in the dreams of his faithful to give them advice.  He 'frequently' manifests on the Mortal Realms, in defiance of Divine Law in the pursuit of his often complex schemes... though for a being of his age 'frequent' i soften less than once in a mortal lifespan. Accordingly, one of his blessings is an understanding of barriers and how to overcome them.

First Hunter: worshipped as a totemic spirit by many nomadic tribes, both in the Savannahs and in the Sea of Grass, and also by the tribes of the Tundrid Plateau, First Hunter is an Ascended so old it has lost all sense of Identity, of self, and remains only a Purpose... or so they say.  His priests are the tribal shamen, his worshippers the hunt and their devotions the act of hunting itself.  While First Hunter is not worshipped by the Siti, they do venerate him as they do all the Gods, and that is good enough for him.  Despite the utter lack of reason, First Hunter is worshipped with temples and congregations in the city of Pondu, in Avante. There is a prophecy that the world will end and the First Hunter will stalk the Mortal Realms, hunting Death itself. If he succeeds then Haven will continue for another Age, if he fails, Death will end the world.  While the Avante revere and respect Death, though they fear it as all living things do, they believe that the Hunter must stop him, and they believe he will manifest in Pondu, so they strengthen him for the Hunt.  As Pondu lies near the swamps in Avante, many of the Lizardfolk have come to worship the great Hunter.



I intend to catalog all the Gods I've mentioned to date in this sort of detail and expand the list to more serviceable levels. I expect to include the Dwarven pantheon and other region/race specific groupings as I can, but that is a big project and I've been at it too long as it is.

Before I continue on I wish to discuss the nature of worship here.  As I've established, the Gods are essentially Universal, there isn't really a 'Gods of the Nornsans' and a 'Gods of the Tenebrians' sort of breakdown.  In some cases a God is worshipped under different names, and I try to include those where possible. Some names are simply retranslated into the same basic meaning regardless of language.  The Name for First Hunter translates into 'First Hunter' regardless of the native language, though the actual sounds vary (the Siti refer to yith'vi, their word/combination for Hunter, Primary)

It is rare to see two or more competing churches or cults in the same region to the same god. Churches and Cults may be lead by ambitious men who fragment the church for their own ends, certainly, but as this tends to lead to a general decrease in worship over time the God will usually just stop favoring one or the other church, leading to an informal support of a given doctrine or dogma.

in matters of faith, however, it should be noted that the vast majority of people in Haven do not venerate a single God, but instead worship all the gods (or all the 'relevant' Gods) and simply pray for intercession to the most appropriate God.  Even many 'holy men' may serve many gods, though generally a much smaller set than the general populace.  These priests will generally have a single patron whom they receive their blessings from.

Cults and more restrictive organizations gain better blessings for their followers at the cost of less flexibility in worship.  A cult follower of Versilimatu will get a cold shoulder from the Aspect of the Sun god he directs a prayer too, no matter how appropriate the prayer.

Depending on the Game system this can be problematic.   In D&D terms, Clerics tend to be 'cult' style, dedicated to a single God.  In Runequest terms, a 'lay worshipper' could theoretically gain divine spells, at least low level ones, from several gods, but the higher level spells are restricted to those who dedicate themselves to a single god.  Either way: As divine magic flows from the God, the ability of the caster should not be tied to their temporal power within the organization... and for less verbose Gods, a common way to support or denounce a practice is through the power granted to followers who practice the 'right way'.   If two competing churches fight and one destroys the other before the God intervenes, but the survivors of the destroyed church still draw power from the God that is a direct endorsement of their practices, though the suriving church is not likely to be punished as this is actually harmful... unless their practices are really out of line with the God's intent.


The Gods have a lot of leeway in how they tend their flocks.  The First, Haven itself, and even the Smith who created all the Mortal Races; none of these worthies concern themselves with the feelings of mortals, only that they are thriving and helping keep Haven secure against the Sea of Chaos that threatens to erode Haven.  Even the Demonlords have this in mind, though they may be more selfish as they are not truly meant to be part of the Great Engine.   A God can be a rat bastard as long as he keeps mortal worshipping him and keeps feeding them Divine Magic (which is the stuff of chaos turned into reality after being filtered by the Gods... thus adding to the stuff of Haven, if indirectly).  A few Gods are not, as stated, strictly responsible for worship but serve more administrative needs, if you will.

What I'd like to do is work out a way to represent the more minor, scattered veneration and the blessings.  I DO have a system that covers that (Anima... ) but like D&D its actually a bit high powered in some ways.

By high powered I refer to the default level, as at the high end I always imagined it was possible to account for possible apotheosis of one or more player characters within the setting.  

Anyway: I'll finish the consolidation/expansion later.

Quote from: SpikeIt is rare to see two or more competing churches or cults in the same region to the same god. Churches and Cults may be lead by ambitious men who fragment the church for their own ends, certainly, but as this tends to lead to a general decrease in worship over time the God will usually just stop favoring one or the other church, leading to an informal support of a given doctrine or dogma.

in matters of faith, however, it should be noted that the vast majority of people in Haven do not venerate a single God, but instead worship all the gods (or all the 'relevant' Gods) and simply pray for intercession to the most appropriate God. Even many 'holy men' may serve many gods, though generally a much smaller set than the general populace. These priests will generally have a single patron whom they receive their blessings from.

I generally like this messier, realist approach to churches, religion and Faith.  Not only does it encompass the issue of humans running churches and their foibles, but the level of universalism also fits my ideals.

I see your comments about systems.  To look at this in a different way, would you say your setting here is more compatable with a system that utililizes divine magic or not?

I've been working somewhat schizophrenically on this. My players are mostly into D&D, which tends to lead to a D&D style of writing, or reaction to D&D tropes when writing it, yet with one exception all game play has been in Runequest.

Both systems have Divine magic, of course, though they are radically different in application.   However, if you look at the nature of the metaphysics you can say that the purpose of the Gods is to enable mortals to do magic easier, thus any system that includes magic could, theoretically be supported with little work.  Replace 'study and learning' with 'faith' as the origin of the magic and replace a few trappings (withered, gnarled staves with holy symbols etc) and it works.

The Gods of the Dwarves:

Dwarves are among the most Pious of species, after a fashion. Metaphysically, however, they represent something of a connundrum. Very few dwarves will have anything to do with magic, even the magic of the Gods, after two seperate disasters that virtually eliminated magic and a curse that nearly wiped out their species (and incidentally was very hard for the Gods to untangle enough for them to even be able to use magic again...). Of course, the gods WANT the dwarves using magic.  

Given the very close knit community of the Dwarves and their relatively undemanding (from a divine standpoint) nature, the Dwarves have one of the least complicated pantheons in Haven, though there are quite a number of minor gods covering minutae of dwarven life that will not be covered here.

There are several different dwarven languages, and dozens of dialects of each, but we will provide the most common name for the Gods in the most prevelant 'dwarven' language.

Huazzika: Sky-Mother-whos-Womb-bears-water: The oldest and most prominant of the Dwarven gods, she predates their underground existance... in fact she is the sole god of the Dwarves who predates the fall of the Titans.   She is universally revered in the north, but the southern clanholds are just as likely to curse on her name as bless her. Many southern dwarves have declared she is 'Sky Father', which troubles the Goddess but she is powerless to intervene directly.     She is indirectly responsible for beer and bread, as well as the wellbeing of expectant mothers and has worked hardest of all the Dwarven Gods to undo the ancient curse that sees so many dwarven women die in childbirth.

Wall:  This is actually two different gods, who's name has entered Nornsan as the term for a defensive structure.  A thousand years ago Wall was an old, sturdy dwarf, cheerfully resolute, a protector figure for all dwarves.   He was swallowed by the Sea of Chaos trying to preserve the integrity of Haven after Irem's destruction.  The Dwarves, who aren't clear on the details, believe they failed him. The new Wall, a younger, angrier Diety appeared mysteriously in the Heavens sometime after that, taking up the abandoned Shield and hearthfire and admonishing his followers to remember than without vigilance even the strongest may fall.  The most devout of Wall's followers beleive that the foundation of Dwarven culture is theirs to police, making them unpleasant busybodies... though they are also the very first to put their bodies on the line defending their fellow dwarves.  Followers of Wall are as grim and resolute as the young God, though each is also admonished to keep the light of the hearth alive in their hearts.

Harm: He Who Comforts is the Dwarven god of Shelter, the Home. He is also, incidentally, the human god of war among the Nornska Clansmen.  Accordingly he is taller than most dwarves and braids his hair in the fashion of the Nornska, bearing weapons more appropriate for his human worshippers, though he does not unsheath them.  Harm has always had an incidental interest in the family, the comforting embrace of kin, and this aspect drew him to the Nornska clansmen, who fight only alongside their kinsmen.    Many dwarves refuse to acknowledge this new reality and fashion their statues and icons after his old depictions, which have no weapons and bearing a warm cloak over one arm as if taking it from a weary dwarf returning home.

Ogamamkazzar: The Maker of Metal Skin, the Shaper of Soft Stone.  This God was raised up during the ancient war with the Elves, a simple dwarven farmer who discovered that certain stones could be softened and shaped with heat and hammer, and is viewed by some as the husband of Sky-Mother, who values his simple values and his dedication to his kin. While depicted in myths and legends as a simple, direct God who seeks the simplest solution to problems, he is worshipped by many as a clever God who puts common things to new uses to solve old problems.  Reportedly, those who have spoken to him (as once was common) have reported that his answer to which is the right view is a shrug and a grunt. He is not interested in wasting time debating philosophy, there is work to be done.



Pre-Edit:  I will be revisiting this post to add more/make corrections rather than add to post count dividing things up.

To dash off a quick note: The Gods are remarkably accessable in Haven.  Certainly before the end of the Mythic Age many manifested in the mortal realms (fighting against Irem, dalliances in the Gardens of Gompileste and so forth), with two Gods who arguably never leave the mortal realms (death and war).

Still, most people, even within a church or cult will not be able to claim honestly that they are so blessed as to speak directly with their Gods.  

Most unusual is the Mortal who interacts directly with a God, either by travelling to the Heavenly Realms or daring to approach one (Death would be the easiest candidate) in person on the Mortal realm.

You might think this would clear up a lot of theological questions but really it just sort of adds to them, as the Gods don't like to spend much time dealing with trivia.   It has led to the strange practice of worshipping certain Gods without a clear understanding of what exactly they do.  

One example is (stealing VERY liberally from Stephen Brust this time... don't expect this to become cannon...or even canon)  Verra, the so called Demon Goddess.  She was seen being somewhat busy in the Heavenly Realms, an ancient Goddess without a living representative of her original species it was assumed she had to be a demon, which is impossible in heaven, thus she is the Goddess who is responsible for the demons to mortal observers, and eventually a cult sprang up around a wholly fabricated idea of who/what she was. She is very protective of her new followers, but is still a cruel and fickle goddess, in keeping with what they expect.  Incidentally, a few minor demons (who, to be honest are much like Mortals barring a few incidental differences, such as the nature of their souls (physically incarnate rather than 'immortal, immaterial) have taken up the worship of Verra as the only God who cares enough to 'cover' the Demon Realm's she is forbidden from entering... its all very odd. They only know of her because the mortals who worshipper her occasionally summon demons in her name.

Quote from: PICA 'O' DOOMYou might think this would clear up a lot of theological questions but really it just sort of adds to them, as the Gods don't like to spend much time dealing with trivia. It has led to the strange practice of worshipping certain Gods without a clear understanding of what exactly they do.

This falls under the rubric of 'they are strange and old and more complex than a mortal can know'.  My Gods are extrmely inscutable and manipulative.
Celtrician Worship

I love the clearly human hand in your churches.  How have you seen it affect the game play?  any tidbits or stories?

So far, none of my players have been hugely interested in the religious/metaphysical aspects of the world, but there are some affects that have been 'written in'.

As stated earlier the 'newest' God is Versilmatu, who carved the Nornsan empire from nothing centuries ago.  In the northern half of the Empire he is revered openly, with the 'High King' held as a living avatar of the God, the temporal and spirtual head of the church, while in the southern half of the former Empire he is worshipped in Mystery Cults in secret places, with the brethren helping each other gain power and wealth, while farther south, still, in the city of Paravail (which is politically dominated by non-humans (dwarves and orcs/orc hybrids... though to be sure humans aren't powerless at all), Versilmatu is considered a patron god of humanity, worshipped and held as a protection from potential enslavement by the non-human races.  In Paravail, Versilmatu is held up as an 'Ideal Human', deified for embodying all the best aspects of humanity.

This, mind you, from the most relatable, active God.

I'll try to make time to read your site later today. Looks detailed and long...

I like Versilatmu.  Your 'ascended' would kind of be considered 'saints' in Celtricia.  But a Patron God of Humanity?  He's got very good PR people, as that really increases his possible demographic.  Active God?  I think so.  He's got it going on, so to speak.

If you do check out my site, after you click the link, Look at the 'Igbar' page, on the menu to the right.  That's the home base for my most active group.

Well, once you get away from the region he dominated in life, his influence wanes considerably.  The Tenebrian's recognize him as a god, but put him as some minor functionary, one of a dozen or so war gods. They claim to worship ALL the Gods, so...
 The Nis know who he was historically but don't consider him divine, and the Reve only ask 'did he own a boat?'. Since the answer was 'no', they could care less about him.

Give him a few millenia and a few catastrophic disasters and he'll be a much more settled God content to do his divine stuff in the background.

ah.  Still an immature, punk god who thinks he can change everything??  Give him time, he'll settle down.

So given all this, I have trouble believing you'd use traditional alignment.  Am I right?

Never bought into alignments, no.

OF Gods and Elves:

The Elves of Haven acknowledge the various Gods but are not particularly known for their worship, and there are few enough 'Elven Gods' that can be noted. It can be stated that most Elves believe they have the potential to become Gods themselves, and those most interested attempt to become "Gods in Training" by following the examples of the Gods they most want to emulate...

The Gods, for their part, generally think the Elves are somewhat crazy.

Despite 10000 years of study and effort directed at emulating the Gods the Elves have the fewest Ascendant Gods, so rather than simply list the few Gods there are, let us discuss the practices of religion among the various Elven Tribes.

The Tuatha, mostly long gone now (though when discussing immortals it is hard to say if all have truly died out...) were deeply in tune with the natural world, and they primarily worshipped the First, a deliberate choice on their part as they preferred to worship, as they viewed it, the 'True Gods', rather than lesser functionaries.  Ironically, the Tuathans came the closest to true worship in this fashion.

The Danu, another Southern Tribe were a more grounded, practical people than many of their cousins, a necessity given their dedication to war.  To them it was a matter of practicality that they dedicate attention to Gods who could help them in battle.   The Danu preferred to worship abstract ideals rather than individuals with personality, however.  Those 'ideal conceptual' gods began as Created but eventually fused with nameless fallen Danu warriors who embodied those ideals in life.  While the worship of the Danu was based entirely on practical contracts with the Gods, it was not any less effacious.

The Danan, those nomadic decendants of the Danu have taken up the totemic worship common to the other nomadic tribes of the Sea of Grass, though with the normal elvish arrogance, and casting their various Gods in elvish drag, with the Fortress Elves have apparently collectively abandoned all forms of worship except self verenation.

Technically the Deaylyreath are Elves, and they have no use for the Gods at all, per se.  Darsyltier, their founder, is feared as a dark God, with good reason, and they've entered some sort of deals with the Demonlords, though few would call those bargains 'worship'.

The Siti, as always, exemplify the Elvish culture, being the ur-culture of the Elves, from which all other Elves deviated.

Blasphemes and the Gods:

To be sure, very few things in Haven can truly get you into metaphysical problems. The Gods are very pragmatic about things for the most part, and most heresy and blasphemy are more crimes against the dogmas of a cult or temple run by mortals.

That said, let us discuss very briefly the few things that will seriously screw up your afterlife in Haven:

Violating a Divine Covenant:  The most famous such Covenant is the Oath of Paravail. Violating the Oath isn't much of an issue, but cheating your way out of the Curse levied IS.  The offender is generally more the fellow who breaks the Curse itself, but even seeking such a hubristic chap is grounds for a frank, post death, discussion about rules.  

Creation of, or use of an artifact such as the Book of the Paths of the Dead:
The Gods created the Paths of the Dead to sort the usefullness of Souls.  Tombs like the Book are a cheat, rendering their sorting process much less useful.  True, given that Mortals are almost completely ignorant of the sin they commit in using the Book itself they are famously patient with those mortals who successfully used it to cheat their way through the Paths.

Necromancy: particularly raising the Dead back to life.  Really this is only a 'Blasphemy' to Death, for reasons never made very clear. Certainly the act of calling a soul back from the Underworld is a Hubristic act, presuming something the Gods prefer to keep to themselves, but the animation of remains is comparatively trivial... and absolutely certain to earn the enemity of Death.  Ressurection magic is... touchy.  If 'supplied' by the Gods than it is tolerable, though for those brought back too many times, frequently Death will intervene personally to put a stop to the practice. Certain exceptions do exist (Renbluve's Sun Cult's self-sacrifice ritual, for example.)

Elder Sorcery:  This is sort of an administrative blasphemy. The gods, as a general rule, WANT mortals to do magic, the more powerful the better.  The trouble with Elder Sorcery is that it can backfire horribly, it allows Mortals to perform magic on par with the Gods, only without their being equipped to actually do so, and the wrong move can literally unweave Reality.  So, since the Fall of Irem, mortals who undertake to study Elder Sorcery do so at extreme risk to their Souls.  

Attempting to undo the Great Engine or the Barrier:  This has not been an issue, largely in all the ages of Haven, known or unknown, as with the exception of the Savants of Irem, few Mortals have ever learned enough about the nature of Haven to even know the Barrier exists, much less how to attack it... and of them none have yet been nihilistic enough to try... though misguided might be more likely.  Only a fellow God (War) has ever tried to harm the Great Engine itself, and even that was incidental to his real goals (total war, involving the heavens, the Demon Realms and the Mortal realms in a never ending conflict).  Nevertheless the Gods have already determined that should this Blasphemy ever be attempted (if it succeeded then there wouldn't be a need to punish anyone...) that the offender would be immedeatly cast into Chaos to be destroyed.  


The punishments for Blasphemers vary wildly.  Death, as the primary enforcer of the 'no necromancy' rule simply ends the lives of offenders as quickly as possible, though 'repeat offenders' may find their very soul being 'ended'...

Violaters of the Elder Sorcery rule may find their very soul being consigned to Chaos itself, something even the Gods fear.  This is not a given, mind you. The Gods are reluctant to consign ANYTHING to Chaos, and a determined studious Mortal interested in magical power is to be encouraged.

In general, however, the need to deal with blasphemers who are not unrepentant and incorrigable enough to warrent exile beyond the Barrier has lead to the creation of punishments in the Underworld.  These are often unique and imaginative tortures that must be endured indefinitely, though there is no one single location, or 'Hell' for such damned souls.... each punished individual becomes something of a landmark in and of themselves... though a few of the crueler Gods have their own 'trophy racks' of condemned souls... as a general rule this is frowned upon.

Please note, however, that consorting with Demons is not particularly a problem.  The Gods may find it misguided and vaguely amusing, but Demons are just as invested in the long term viability of the Mortal Realm as the Gods, if not moreso.  They may be less interested in the Great Engine, but only because they were not invited to take part in its creation and maintenance.

Sounds internally consistent.  So all of the above are things the Gods generally agree upon, or this is a general overview with exceptions?  Would some gods do things differently if they could get away with it?

Elder sorcery is older, and thus closer to the earlier godly magics?

You have to understand that most of the beings called 'Gods' are sort of minor functionaries, middle management promoted from the masses of mortals to keep things running for the largely alien and even Abstract First Gods.  The Gods don't really understand their bosses much better than mortals do.

Haven (which is what I, the GM/Game Designer person, call it, not the inhabitants) is literally a 'Haven' from Chaos for the First Gods... and all the actions of the mortals and lesser Gods are meant to keep Haven from being reabsorbed by Chaos.... which is where Magic comes in.

Elder Sorcery is actually not that old, per se.  The Titans, who were destroyed ten thousand years earlier didn't use it, and while I don't exactly have much in mind that predates the Titans, I do know that The Great Engine (mortals) was in place long before the Titans rose, though what the world was like back then is deliberably a mystery.

The Gods have altered the way Mortals interact with magic to the limits of their ability. The Titans, and then Irem, both threatened the integrity of Haven and the Great Engine with their Hubris and Power.  Elder Sorcery is a real problem however: essentially Elder Sorcery taps into the very fabric of Haven, much like a science.  Only by rebuilding Haven from scratch could Elder Sorcery be 'destroyed', and that would just mean that eventually Mortals would find a new version of it.  Most magic works by the power of sentient beings tapping into Chaos, bringing in a tiny amount and giving it form and purpose.  Elder Sorcery completely bypasses the mind and body of the caster, the Chaos flows in, given only the most rudimentary of form and purpose, because a bunch of 'stones' are put in the right positions.   In a way, it is an evolution of the Runemagic I use heavily in the runequest versions of hte game: the Stones are 'blank' runes (runes being nodules of the reality of Haven... but that's another thing entirely...)